How to Get More Pets Adopted, with Mutual Rescue

Dixie: 00:00:02

Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the

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people and rescues making a

difference in the lives of animals.

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Hi Finn,

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Thank you for coming on the show.

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I am looking forward to learning

all about mutual rescue.

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Finn: Excellent.

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It's really nice to meet you, by the way

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Dixie: To start, if you could please

introduce yourself and tell us a

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little bit about mutual rescue.

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Finn: Okay, well my name is Finnegan

Dowling and I am the shelter program and

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engagement manager for mutual rescue.

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A little bit about me.

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I've been in animal sheltering since 1992.

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We were adopting out pteradactyls at that

point, and well I left a couple of times.

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I've pretty much stayed

close to the field.

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What Mutual Rescue is it's an organization

that works to get people more involved

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with their local community shelters.

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Not just , because we believe that helps

the pets, but because that we believe that

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when pets and people engaged together,

people's lives are changed forever.

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And so we believe when you help

animals, you help people too.

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Would we do a number of

different things to demonstrate.

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Just how powerful the

effect of mutual rescue is.

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We have, I think about 33

short films on our website that

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tell stories of rescue pets.

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Changing the lives of the people who

adopted them and helping them grow

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and heal through different situations.

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And , our films are really well done.

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A bunch of them have won awards.

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We have two that will be traveling

with international film festivals

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this year, which is very exciting.

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And then on the shelter side of

things, we do a couple of things.

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We work with shelters to help them start

new programs to better engage with their

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communities, like Day Foster Field Trip.

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And, we also work to make it to make

shelters more accessible to the community.

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So we do a lot of getting basically white

labeled resources translated into Spanish

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by a native speaker in Guadalajara.

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We have an amazing translator.

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And then any shelter that needs.

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Resources in Spanish on pet health,

pet behavior can go ahead and download

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those and put their logos on them.

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On the other side, what we do is we

work with corporations that want to

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partner with local shelters and a lot of.

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Corporations automatically default to

an organization like HSUS or A-S-P-C-A

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or best Friends that does great work.

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But unfortunately those dollars

really don't reach the local

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shelters that need them the most.

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So what we do is we work with corporations

that want to do a national partnership,

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would want the money to go to local

shelters, and we put together groups

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of local shelters in the corporations.

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Geographic footprint.

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And then do you know, marketing

campaigns, partnerships in which the

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monies from the corporations then

immediately goes , to those shelters

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involved in those partnerships.

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And in that way, instead of everybody

fighting over the same small

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amount of philanthropy that goes.

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Towards animal welfare.

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We're trying to grow the pie and

then get that money immediately

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to where the work is being done.

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Which is to the local shelters

and communities around America.

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Dixie: That's amazing.

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And those are great programs too.

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I would definitely wanna

learn more about your language

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accessibility program as well.

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As the day foster programs.

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But before we get into that, since

you have been in animal sheltering

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for so long, what was your.

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Spark that got you into

animal welfare to begin with?

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Finn: I really wish I had some

great story about how I grew up

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completely dedicated to animals and

like came to this with a laser focus.

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But I will be honest with you, that

is just like, like when people fall

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in love with their pets, that's

just not the way it happened.

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Right.

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. I went to a great college in Washington

State, evergreen State College, and I

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was, I went to school when I was younger.

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I was 16 or 17, and my school was

very involved in the community

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and they had a rule that the first

year you had to volunteer so many

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hours in order to pass the year.

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And me being a little bit younger and

a little bit stupider decided that

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I would completely ignore this until

the last two weeks of the school year.

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And then all of a sudden I had

like some ridiculous amount of

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hours that I had to do or else I

would not pass the school year.

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And the only place that

would take me being 17.

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Having to do something absurd, like

a hundred hours or something in a

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month was the local community, the

municipal animal shelter, which at the

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time was like 20 kennels or something.

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And so I was like, cool.

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And I went in and I was in college to

get a degree in long form journalism.

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And I did actually, , I do actually

have a degree in journalism and I

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don't know what it was, but I found.

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So much purpose and so much healing

and so much positivity there.

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And that it just became,

even after I finished those

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hours, I stayed working there.

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I wound up getting a summer job there.

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And over the time that I lived in that

town in Washington on and off for eight

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or nine years, I worked for that shelter.

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I interned there in the

marketing department.

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Even though I was getting a degree

in journalism, it was, I had to

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do an internship of some sort.

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And so , they had me writing

all of their materials and then

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yeah, it just went from there.

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And, , I just wound up never leaving, I

was an animal control officer and then I

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went on to work in shelters in Colorado,

California, Florida, and Nicaragua.

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And it just, even with my degree

in long form journalism, it's

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just always been my passion.

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Dixie: Yeah, that's a pretty cool story.

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So since you do have that degree

in journalism, do you use that to

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write articles for animal welfare?

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Finn: I have in the past, yes.

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I used to, I've written for the Bark,

I've written for Huffington Post.

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And a couple of other, oh, I forget,

there's a couple of places that

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my writing has been published.

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I've written a lot for , the mutual

rescue blog, and then before I came

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to Mutual Rescue, I was actually,, the

marketing manager, , or the marketing,

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, for Humane Society of Silicon Valley.

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And I wrote a ton of stuff there

and we wound up winning some awards

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for it, like just for some goofy.

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Sort of marketing posts that I did.

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So I've always stayed close to

writing in the work that I do.

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But even though I love writing, my,

my big passion right now is not just

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the animals, but shelter people.

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Frontline workers are my tribe

and they inspire me every day.

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So while I love doing the writing

parts of my job, I really love working

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with the shelter workers a lot.

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'cause I feel most at home doing that.

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Dixie: With the language

accessibility program with mutual

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rescue, tell us how that got

started and why is that beneficial?

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Finn: I will start with why that's

beneficial and we'll talk about, and full

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disclaimer, my name is Finnegan Dowling.

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I am obviously not Latino.

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My family's actually Boston Irish.

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But it came about for a bunch of reasons.

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Number one, when I was younger, I went

and worked in a shelter in Nicaragua

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for a couple years and that was a

very eyeopening experience to me of

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how many cultural miscommunications

there are and how we tend to really

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view things in the US through.

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Without thinking of other people's

traditions, other people's cultures,

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and what I saw in Nicaragua.

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Was a culture of people who really

loved their pets, doing the absolute

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best they could with limited resources.

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And that was really eye-opening to me

because I had a lot of preconceptions

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having, coming from American sheltering,

which I hate to say it, but does have a

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really big problem with being prejudiced

against migrant communities and

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communities that speak other languages.

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It's not even that we're prejudice towards

them, it's that we completely ignore.

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And I don't believe that is on purpose.

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I believe that is a lot of times a lack

of resources and a lack of knowledge.

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But , why is this important?

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Is because, A, we're not adopting

out as many pets we as we could

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be from a sheltering perspective.

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I'll get to the human

perspective in a second.

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B.

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We're taking in animals.

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We don't need to be taking in.

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We're not engaging our full

community for foster, for adoption.

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One of the things I teach is I teach

marketing workshops and how to write

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for difficult animals or how to write

for social media for long stay pets.

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And I always hear from when I'm

teaching, well, we put out so many

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pleases and the community isn't, and

nobody in the community is listening.

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And my question is always.

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Did you really ask everybody?

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Because I live in Texas, population of

my state is 28% Spanish speaking at the

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in home, which means that two out of

three more, almost three out of 10 people

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prefer to get, are more comfortable

processing information in Spanish and we

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are not providing for those people, but

then we're villainizing that population.

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For years, sheltering , has completely

ignored the people in their community

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that speak other languages and then

at the same time villainize them

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for not taking advantage of the

programs or not following the rules.

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When in reality we've never made

any attempt in a lot of cases to

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even try to engage them or try to

show them the resources and programs

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and everything that are available.

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So that's a huge problem

on a sheltering side.

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Everybody knows that we're full right now.

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Like what could you do with almost 30%

more of your community helping you out?

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Like from a sheltering side,

that's huge on the human side.

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Let's just talk about the

differing experiences that a

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Spanish speaker would have.

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Versus an English speaking person

at a shelter and in a lot of

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shelters, and there are some

shelters that are not like this.

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There are a lot of shelters that

do really well at having bilingual

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staff that do really well at

working to find ways to communicate.

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But let's say that most

shelters, you have a cat.

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Let's call this cat Tom.

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Okay?

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Here's Tom, the cat.

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Tom isn't using his litter box.

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So in most shelters now, we work

a lot on diversion, meaning can

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we help you to keep that pet?

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So Jane Smith comes in with Tom and

she speaks English and she says,

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Tom doesn't, Tom isn't using the

litter box and I have to give him up.

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And in most shelters, because

we are really focusing on

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diversion now, we'll say.

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Can we help you with that?

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Before you surrender him, can we give

you some behavioral materials that

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might help you solve the problems?

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A lot of times litter box issues can

be an easy fix, that sort of thing.

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And we're able to de deter a lot of.

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Surrenders that way by helping

people solve really basic problems.

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Ms.

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Smith takes her, takes Tom, and she

goes home and she feels empowered

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and she feels like that shelter

really values her as a pet owner and

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values the bond between her and Tom.

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So now let's have another family

go in and let's have them be

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Spanish speakers and they have

Tom and we can give them any name.

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I won't even try to give them a name.

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But anyway, so this family

goes in and they speak Spanish.

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First of all, they bring, go in

and place Tom on the table, and

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immediately, if there's not a bilingual

staff person at the front desk,

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they have to find somebody to go up.

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What's going?

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So first of all, this

family now feels like.

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They're not really welcome at this

shelter and anything to begin with.

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Not even that they're not welcome,

but it's just not set up for them.

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It's not designed for them.

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That sort of thing, that

experience of being like, whoa,

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there's nothing here for me.

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But then they do get somebody

and they communicate, well,

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Tom's not using the litter box.

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Well, we don't have any materials

to help you and nobody, we

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don't really have enough Spanish

speakers to talk you through.

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Possible litter box issues, and we

don't have any handouts for you to

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keep Tom, so we're just gonna take Tom,

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what is the difference between the

experience of those two people?

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What are we telling that community when

we really need all of our community

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to feel welcome and to feel that the

shelter has resources for them and the

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shelter values their bond with their pet?

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What do we say when we do that?

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And it's not the shelter's fault

because like I said, many of

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them don't have the resources.

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But to be able to do that or.

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I don't know, maybe, they have

leadership that is not seeing the full

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picture, but it's just not happening.

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And so , our big thing is what if

we just came up with all of these

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resources, put them out there.

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Any shelter can take them, put

their own logo on them and use them.

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So maybe when that family comes in

with Tom and he's having litter box

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issues, they can not only keep Tom from

coming into the shelter, but they can

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also show that family, Hey, we value.

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That bond between Tom and your

family, just as much as we valued Mrs.

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Smith's bond with her cat, and we really,

we're, and we're gonna empower you to

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help Tom and keep him in your home.

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It's a big thing.

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Dixie: How many instructional

videos do you have that would

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be accessible in Spanish?

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Finn: Right now we don't have any videos.

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We have 50 handouts that

are translated into Spanish.

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They're all written at all

of the information is solid.

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It's all positive reinforcement.

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Training and basic health and vet

care on different subjects like

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litter box issues for adoptions,

introducing a new dog to your home.

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Some health things,

fleas, spay and neuter.

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We have all of those handouts available,

and it's one click to download each

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handout and two clicks for any shelter

to add their own logo at the top,

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and then they can just go ahead and

start using them and giving them out.

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What we're working on right now

with our translator who's amazing.

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He is Danielle Luna of Luna

Languages in Guadalajara, Mexico,

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and he is also a Spanish teacher.

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With about nine years of experience

teaching people all over the world,

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and he is putting together, we have

two that are in post-production

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and three that and more coming.

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And we're doing a series of short

videos that will also live on the

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same web webpage as the handouts.

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And those videos will teach

animal shelter workers.

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Really basic Spanish.

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We're not trying to teach anybody

to be fluent, we, but just

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things like vocabulary words

that you'll hear in the shelter.

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How to greet a Spanish speaker,

how to figure out what's going on.

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Just some basic words so that at

least when that family comes in, you

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can show them that you are making

that effort and that you're trying

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to communicate with them and also.

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These lessons the ones that

we have done, they're fun.

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They're three to five minutes long, so

it's just something that shelters workers

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can watch in between appointments when

they get a slow minute at the desk.

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Ha.

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There's never a slow minute at the desk.

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I know that.

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But, just something that's

really fun and easy.

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And so we have, I think actually,

I think we're up to three now.

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They're in veteran post-production,

and it will be a whole series of videos

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that will take people first through

how to pronounce the vowels, how to

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pronounce things, and then into words,

and then just into basic interactions.

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So, and those will also

live on our website as well.

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Dixie: For small rescues or foster

based rescues, do you have any resources

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for them to say recruit new volunteers

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in Spanish

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Finn: speaking volunteers?

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Dixie: Correct?

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Finn: I do not.

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However, that is an excellent idea.

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I have presented on language

and cultural accessibility with

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the incredible Jackie Hernandez.

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Of she works for Nebraska Humane,

but she's also the head of an

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organization called so which is Soar.

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I can never remember.

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Solidarity of Latin American

shelter workers and basically

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solidarity of shelter workers now

for the Latin American community.

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And she has some great examples.

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That I could send you from Nebraska

Humane of how they have gone about

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recruiting bilingual volunteers.

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So know, well, we don't have those

resources because we try to keep

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things pretty general and with

things like that, we have gotten

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requests for a white label form.

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But the problem is that everybody's

requirements for foster and

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volunteer are very different.

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But you can literally.

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Write something up and get

it translated for $25 a page.

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And it seems like with those shelters,

you would actually be looking for more of

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a bilingual shelter worker who would be

able to read in English in both Spanish.

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So I think putting those

please out in English.

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That you need bilingual

workers would actually help.

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As long as you specify you are looking

for a bilingual worker, because it sounds

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like what you're looking for, what you're

asking about is help for these rescues to

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help them have somebody that can actually

speak to Spanish speakers on site.

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Dixie: Correct, correct.

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Or if you have a foster, and let's

say you find a Spanish speaking only

315

: 00:17:43

Foster and you only speak English,

just a way to communicate with them.

316

: 00:17:47

Now another tool.

317

: 00:17:48

Could you use like, like a

AI tool to speak with them?

318

: 00:17:54

Finn: You could, but you do have to

be a little bit careful about it.

319

: 00:17:57

And I will tell you because

there's a lot of terms that we use.

320

: 00:18:03

In English about our pets

that just do not translate

321

: 00:18:09

into Spanish.

322

: 00:18:10

And for that, so for that like,

for basic information, yes.

323

: 00:18:15

But I'll give you a fun example is that

when we started doing the handouts,

324

: 00:18:19

one of the ones we did was was, on

dealing with juvenile dogs in rough play

325

: 00:18:25

with juvenile, like how to keep your

juvenile dog from being jumpy and mouthy.

326

: 00:18:30

And we used the term

wrestling with your dog.

327

: 00:18:33

And of course Daniel, our

translator, he was like, what?

328

: 00:18:36

He calls me up and he goes,

what is wrestling with the dog?

329

: 00:18:39

Because he's Mexican, he

is born and bred in Mexico.

330

: 00:18:42

And I'm like, excuse me?

331

: 00:18:44

He's like, what do you mean

by wrestling with the dog?

332

: 00:18:47

So I explained it to him and I

forget what term he used, but he

333

: 00:18:51

was like, oh, okay, it's this.

334

: 00:18:53

And so then I went to AI and I put in

wrestling with the dog and asked it to

335

: 00:18:58

translate it to Spanish, and it gave me

in Spanish doing lucha libre with your

336

: 00:19:05

dog, which is a hysterical chat, GPT

prompt, but does not make any sense.

337

: 00:19:12

So you've gotta be a little bit careful

with something like that, with using

338

: 00:19:16

chat GPT for stuff like that, like

behavioral or really specific stuff.

339

: 00:19:21

But it can function pretty

well for that as well.

340

: 00:19:24

The other option I would tell, I

would really encourage small foster

341

: 00:19:29

based rescues and smaller shelters

to do is to consider reaching out to

342

: 00:19:32

local colleges or community colleges

and recruiting volunteer translators.

343

: 00:19:38

Recruiting people saying, Hey, we're

looking for volunteer bilingual

344

: 00:19:42

translators that can be available,

that if I need to talk to my Spanish

345

: 00:19:47

speaking foster parent they can jump on

a three-way call and translate with me.

346

: 00:19:51

It's a really easy volunteer

job for maybe somebody who's in

347

: 00:19:55

college and can't always come out

to help but wants to help, can do.

348

: 00:19:59

And so maybe try looking, re recruiting

for a bilingual person who's willing to

349

: 00:20:04

be a translation volunteer via phone.

350

: 00:20:07

Dixie: That's good advice.

351

: 00:20:09

Are there any plans to

expand to other languages?

352

: 00:20:12

Finn: Yes.

353

: 00:20:13

Yes.

354

: 00:20:13

In fact one of the, we offer all

of the blanks in English as well,

355

: 00:20:19

just so that people shelters know

what they're handing out in English.

356

: 00:20:23

I think it was Good Shepherd

Humane Society in Arkansas.

357

: 00:20:27

I was talking to, I believe he's the

director over there, I forget his name,

358

: 00:20:31

but he also works with, I believe it's

the Rural Rescue Network and where they

359

: 00:20:36

are at, they have a very large population

of people who speak the language.

360

: 00:20:40

Karen, which is a language that

is spoken on the border of, I

361

: 00:20:44

wanna say Thailand and Myanmar.

362

: 00:20:47

But they have, that area has a large

meat processing plant and that employs

363

: 00:20:52

a lot of migrants who only speak Karen.

364

: 00:20:56

And so Good Shepherd Humane is

translating our originals into

365

: 00:21:00

Karen for their population.

366

: 00:21:02

And when they do that, they've graciously

offered to let us have those translations.

367

: 00:21:08

So we will also have them in Karen.

368

: 00:21:11

That was not the next language we

planned to expand into, but it's

369

: 00:21:15

opportunistic and we'll take it.

370

: 00:21:16

And we know Minnesota has a

large population of and Illinois.

371

: 00:21:19

Both have large populations

of Karen speakers as well.

372

: 00:21:23

But we are our plans for our next

official language that we will expand

373

: 00:21:27

into will probably be Vietnamese

or Chinese, where we will look

374

: 00:21:31

demographically at where to go next

of where the greatest need is next.

375

: 00:21:37

Yes, we definitely have plans that

this will not just be Spanish.

376

: 00:21:40

Spanish is just the first

one we're rolling out.

377

: 00:21:43

As far as we know, we're the first

shelter to do this and so as our first

378

: 00:21:47

organization to do this, so we're still

working out the kinks with Spanish.

379

: 00:21:51

Dixie: Great.

380

: 00:21:52

That's awesome.

381

: 00:21:53

And it's good to know that you're

expanding to the other languages as well.

382

: 00:21:56

I was actually gonna ask about Vietnamese,

'cause we have a large Vietnamese

383

: 00:22:00

population here where I am in Louisiana.

384

: 00:22:02

Finn: Yes.

385

: 00:22:03

Yeah, we have a large Vietnamese

population here too, in Corpus Christi

386

: 00:22:07

and where mutual rescue is based out

of, which is we're a national initiative

387

: 00:22:12

of Humane Society, Silicon Valley.

388

: 00:22:14

And that in that area, it, there is a,

an awful lot of Vietnamese speakers.

389

: 00:22:19

So actually Vietnamese was

going to be our next language.

390

: 00:22:22

Dixie: So now onto your day,

foster programs for shelters.

391

: 00:22:26

Can you give us an overview of that?

392

: 00:22:31

Finn: So, just to give an

explanation on what Day Foster

393

: 00:22:34

is, we call it Doggy Day Out.

394

: 00:22:36

Different shelters all have their

own names for their own programs.

395

: 00:22:40

We call it Doggy Day Out.

396

: 00:22:41

And what Doggy Day Out is where you

can go to an animal shelter for a day.

397

: 00:22:46

You can go to an animal shelter

and basically take a dog.

398

: 00:22:50

An adoptable pet out

for a foster field trip.

399

: 00:22:54

You can go for a walk in the park.

400

: 00:22:56

You can go get a pup cup together.

401

: 00:22:58

You can go have lunch

on a pet friendly patio.

402

: 00:23:01

You can just.

403

: 00:23:02

Meander through the city.

404

: 00:23:04

You can basically just give the dog

a break from the shelter and also

405

: 00:23:08

give it a chance to be seen by more

people than just visit the shelter.

406

: 00:23:13

And research has shown that dogs that

go out on day, foster field trips are

407

: 00:23:18

five times more likely to get adopted.

408

: 00:23:21

And dogs that if the people

keep the dog for a sleepover.

409

: 00:23:25

They're 14 times more

likely to be adopted.

410

: 00:23:28

And the, this program particularly is

a magic bullet for getting large dogs,

411

: 00:23:33

blocky head dogs that generally just

do not show well in a shelter setting.

412

: 00:23:38

This project or this program is a magic

bullet for getting these dogs adopted.

413

: 00:23:43

Because people can see how they

behave in the real world and can

414

: 00:23:47

see like, oh, when they're not being

completely crazy in their kennel.

415

: 00:23:50

They're also great for making

better adoptions because as shelter

416

: 00:23:54

workers, we only know what we see.

417

: 00:23:57

We might have, when a dog, an animal

comes into our shelter, we might have

418

: 00:24:00

some background from the prior owner, but

really what we're judging the animal on is

419

: 00:24:06

the behavior we're seeing in the shelter.

420

: 00:24:07

So the more you can get animals

outside of the shelter and see how

421

: 00:24:11

they behave in normal situations.

422

: 00:24:13

The better you can match, make

adoptions, the better understanding

423

: 00:24:17

you have of their temperament.

424

: 00:24:19

And the public loves it as well.

425

: 00:24:20

People really love it.

426

: 00:24:22

And we thought this program was so

important back in, I think,: 2017

427

: 00:24:27

that every shelter should have it

that we did, we're very big on, on

428

: 00:24:30

easy to use, download resources,

put your logo on it and go.

429

: 00:24:35

And so we created the Doggy Day Out

toolkit, which is, you can download

430

: 00:24:39

it and it's about 40 pages long.

431

: 00:24:41

Don't get scared.

432

: 00:24:42

It's not homework, but what it

is it's a manual for the shelter

433

: 00:24:46

on how to start the program.

434

: 00:24:48

There's a manual for

participants in the program.

435

: 00:24:51

There's template documents that you can

use, and it's all in a word file, so

436

: 00:24:57

you can just take whatever you need.

437

: 00:24:59

Change the text as you need to,

again, add your own logos to it.

438

: 00:25:03

And it's like a program in a box.

439

: 00:25:05

And it's been really good

for helping smaller shelters

440

: 00:25:08

get a program up from zero.

441

: 00:25:10

'cause look, you've already

got the manuals, you've got a

442

: 00:25:12

very, the template for different

forms that you can work off of.

443

: 00:25:16

So there you go.

444

: 00:25:17

I present on this program a lot,

and I've worked with VCA charities

445

: 00:25:22

a couple times to co-facilitate

three-day workshops for groups of

446

: 00:25:26

shelters on starting these programs.

447

: 00:25:29

And they have spread all across the

country, and they're absolutely magical,

448

: 00:25:34

like I said, and the public loves

them, and when shelters start them,

449

: 00:25:39

they start to see people that never

would've come into the shelter before.

450

: 00:25:43

Come in 'cause people wanna help and

if you give them an easy low lift way

451

: 00:25:48

to help, they will show up in droves.

452

: 00:25:52

Dixie: You said you do see a lot of

adoptions for the big dogs coming

453

: 00:25:56

from this doggy day out program.

454

: 00:25:58

Is it usually the people that

are doing the short term foster

455

: 00:26:03

and doing the sleepovers?

456

: 00:26:04

Or is it also just beneficial for

the dog's wellbeing in general?

457

: 00:26:08

So that.

458

: 00:26:09

The next time they interact with

somebody, they might interact better.

459

: 00:26:13

Finn: It's I don't have data, like

solid data on the amount of how

460

: 00:26:21

many of the participants actually

wound up taking, adopting the dogs.

461

: 00:26:26

I believe there is

national data from the Dr.

462

: 00:26:28

Lisa Gunter study that she did.

463

: 00:26:31

Which is absolutely excellent,

which was the one that showed that

464

: 00:26:34

five times increase and that 14

times increase for sleepovers.

465

: 00:26:38

I've seen some I know

it varies regionally.

466

: 00:26:41

Like to go back to my friend Jackie

at Nebraska, I believe she said

467

: 00:26:45

that she saw a lot of adoptions

come directly from participants.

468

: 00:26:48

But what you see a lot more is what I

like to call like partner marketing and

469

: 00:26:55

word of mouth, which is that somebody

takes a day out a dog out for the day.

470

: 00:27:00

And the other, the thing,

one of the things that Dr.

471

: 00:27:03

Lisa Gunther's study showed was that

like the median age of people that

472

: 00:27:07

participated in this were in their, like

in thirties, so pretty tech savvy group

473

: 00:27:13

of people that are on social media.

474

: 00:27:15

So people take a dog out for the

day and they take photos and they

475

: 00:27:18

put it on their social media.

476

: 00:27:21

And now that dog's that reach.

477

: 00:27:24

Beyond just people who

follow the shelters page.

478

: 00:27:28

And also it has the effect of acting as

a personal recommendation, which is the

479

: 00:27:35

strongest form of recommendation there is.

480

: 00:27:37

We can write that Bucky is a

good dog on our website till the

481

: 00:27:40

dog, till the cows come home.

482

: 00:27:43

But if your best friend comes up

and says, Hey, I took this dog Bucky

483

: 00:27:46

out yesterday and he's a great dog,

you're gonna believe that a lot more.

484

: 00:27:49

So a lot of that we see too, is that

the people that take these dogs out,

485

: 00:27:54

even if they don't adopt them, they

wind up becoming advocates for them,

486

: 00:27:59

and that helps them get adopted.

487

: 00:28:01

And that advocacy can look as simple as.

488

: 00:28:04

Just posting about their

dog on their social media or

489

: 00:28:07

that advocacy can look like.

490

: 00:28:09

I've seen people pay the adoption fees

for their dog, the dog they took out,

491

: 00:28:14

or bring, gifts or whatever that will be

sent with the dog that he is adopted out.

492

: 00:28:20

But we do see that conversion

to advocacy for that pet.

493

: 00:28:24

And I think it's Kristen Hassan

who has said, seen is saved.

494

: 00:28:28

And when you get these dogs outta

the shelter and you get them seen.

495

: 00:28:33

You have people advocating

for them, it works.

496

: 00:28:39

Dixie: What are some of the most

common misconceptions people have about

497

: 00:28:42

taking a shelter dog on a day out?

498

: 00:28:46

Finn: The public is like all in for this.

499

: 00:28:49

So most of the misconceptions that I've

seen have come from shelters and they've

500

: 00:28:53

tend to come from high barrier shelters.

501

: 00:28:56

The public's misconception, just to

answer that really quickly, is that it's

502

: 00:29:01

like rent a dog that you can call up

and say like, Hey, I wanna take a six

503

: 00:29:06

month old French bulldog out for six.

504

: 00:29:09

Yeah, that's not gonna happen.

505

: 00:29:11

You're gonna get the dogs

that are in the shelter.

506

: 00:29:14

And most of the shelters are

really prioritizing the dogs

507

: 00:29:19

that are going to be large dogs.

508

: 00:29:21

But I think that are gonna be the

long stay dogs and those tend to

509

: 00:29:24

be larger, but I think the public's

misconceptions would really be, the

510

: 00:29:28

dog will be sad when it comes back.

511

: 00:29:31

And I hear that from the shelters too.

512

: 00:29:33

Cortisol studies showed that, no,

that's not the way that works.

513

: 00:29:36

Dr.

514

: 00:29:37

El Gunter, who's incredible, if you have

the chance to look at any of her research.

515

: 00:29:41

Amazing.

516

: 00:29:42

She did a study on the cortisol levels

and what she found is that the cortisol

517

: 00:29:47

levels, the stress levels of the dog go

down when they go out, obviously they're

518

: 00:29:51

out there having a good time and then when

they come back in, they just re return

519

: 00:29:56

to the same level they were at before.

520

: 00:29:59

So the dog is not getting more

stressed from coming back at all.

521

: 00:30:03

It's just really reacting to in the

same amount of stress to being in a

522

: 00:30:09

shelter, but it's functioning the way

that a weekend functions for humans.

523

: 00:30:16

Meaning that if you leave work on

Friday and you're stressed and then you

524

: 00:30:21

get relaxed over the weekend and you

go back to work on Monday and you're

525

: 00:30:26

stressed, does that mean that you would

go give up that weekend to not have

526

: 00:30:29

to go back to work and be stressed?

527

: 00:30:32

No, you're not making the dog sad by

taking it out and bringing it back.

528

: 00:30:36

That's not the way that works.

529

: 00:30:38

That's literally the dog is

just going back to the exact

530

: 00:30:42

same way it was in the shelter.

531

: 00:30:44

But maybe now it's a little bit

more tired and has had a great day

532

: 00:30:47

and it's been seen by the public.

533

: 00:30:50

The big conception misconceptions

I get from shelters, people

534

: 00:30:55

are gonna steal the dogs.

535

: 00:30:56

No, they're not.

536

: 00:30:59

I'm sure it can happen.

537

: 00:31:00

But if you wanna get, if you're looking

to do something nefarious with a dog, you

538

: 00:31:05

are not gonna go to an animal shelter.

539

: 00:31:08

Show them your id, sign a bunch of legal

forms, have them walk you out to your car

540

: 00:31:13

with the dog and see your license plate.

541

: 00:31:16

To do something nefarious to a dog.

542

: 00:31:18

You can go on Facebook, you

can go on Craigslist and get

543

: 00:31:21

a dog with no questions asked.

544

: 00:31:23

So no people are not going to steal

the dogs or do bad things to them.

545

: 00:31:27

People are also think,

what if the dog gets lost?

546

: 00:31:31

What if the dog gets into a fight?

547

: 00:31:33

Obviously, there are

guardrails around this program.

548

: 00:31:35

The first thing that I tell everybody

when they start a program is no dog parks.

549

: 00:31:41

You will never be taking a dog to

a dog park and that all of your

550

: 00:31:45

participants need to know that this is.

551

: 00:31:47

Not a dog park activity.

552

: 00:31:49

This is not a go play with other

dogs activity or meet strange dogs.

553

: 00:31:54

This is for that dog to get some

one-on-one attention and a stress

554

: 00:31:58

break, and it needs to always be

on leash and an adult always has

555

: 00:32:02

to be in charge of that leash.

556

: 00:32:05

The only exception to that is if you're

bringing the dog to your home with no

557

: 00:32:08

other pets and you're letting the dog

play in your fenced backyard for a couple

558

: 00:32:12

hours, which is great, or even let you

know, then you can take the dog off leash.

559

: 00:32:15

But no and if shelters are really

worried about it, I just tell 'em

560

: 00:32:19

to go buy a pack of air tags and

air tag the dogs when they go out.

561

: 00:32:23

I have air tags in all my luggage.

562

: 00:32:25

But yeah, the misconceptions are that this

program's a lot more dangerous than it is.

563

: 00:32:29

It's really not that people

are gonna steal the dogs.

564

: 00:32:32

They're not going to, that the

dogs are going to be heartbroken

565

: 00:32:35

and miserable when they come back.

566

: 00:32:36

Nope.

567

: 00:32:37

Data shows the answer to

that is a big old, solid.

568

: 00:32:39

No, it's pretty much all positive.

569

: 00:32:43

Dixie: That's cool.

570

: 00:32:44

Now, are there any ways to implement

a similar program for cats?,

571

: 00:32:48

Of course, I know you couldn't

go take a cat out on a walk, but.

572

: 00:32:52

For shelters that do have like a large

cat population, is there any kind of

573

: 00:32:56

way you could do like a weekend program

for cats that would be beneficial?

574

: 00:33:01

Finn: I don't have the behavioral data

on that, but like I am a firm believer

575

: 00:33:07

of, and in any kind of short term foster,

I am a firm believer in any opportunity

576

: 00:33:13

you have an animal to get, you have

to get an animal out of the shelter

577

: 00:33:16

and see how it behaves in real life.

578

: 00:33:20

Be it for a weekend,

that is an opportunity.

579

: 00:33:23

I also believe that we are not jailers.

580

: 00:33:28

It is not our purpose to take these

animals into shelter or rescue and hold

581

: 00:33:33

them hostage, and they have to stay there.

582

: 00:33:35

These animals have done nothing wrong.

583

: 00:33:37

They have the right to go

experience normal life, and it

584

: 00:33:41

is not our place to defer that.

585

: 00:33:43

So if you have somebody that

says, I would like to take Ms.

586

: 00:33:47

Kitty home for the weekend.

587

: 00:33:50

Then yes, I believe that a program that's

a beneficial program would I put some

588

: 00:33:54

guardrails around it, just knowing cats?

589

: 00:33:57

Yeah, definitely.

590

: 00:33:58

Obviously you're not gonna take 'em

out on a walk, and maybe if you were

591

: 00:34:02

gonna bring home an older cat for

the weekend, you would say, Hey,

592

: 00:34:05

she needs to stay in your bedroom

with the door closed and and

593

: 00:34:10

the litter box in the bathroom.

594

: 00:34:12

Just 'cause we know a lot of times

when cats are in new places, it's

595

: 00:34:16

a lot less overwhelming for them

to be in a smaller area first.

596

: 00:34:20

So if you were doing a short-term

foster, I would just say maybe that

597

: 00:34:24

would be the guardrails you would put

around it, is that you just say, Hey,

598

: 00:34:26

we're just gonna ask that you keep 'em

in an enclosed area until they start

599

: 00:34:29

to seem a little bit more comfortable,

600

: 00:34:31

Dixie: yeah, I think that could work.

601

: 00:34:33

I do cat rescue, so knowing cat

behavior, you always will see these

602

: 00:34:36

cats that you're like, oh yeah, you

can bring them into your house, and

603

: 00:34:39

they're gonna be totally comfortable.

604

: 00:34:41

And then you have these other

ones that are like, no, it's gonna

605

: 00:34:44

take them a while to warm up.

606

: 00:34:45

You have to have them in their

like little safe, small place.

607

: 00:34:48

But yeah, I think like a weekend thing.

608

: 00:34:50

I never thought about doing like

a weekend thing, but I think that

609

: 00:34:52

could even be beneficial for people.

610

: 00:34:55

Just to experience kittens,

fostering kittens for a weekend

611

: 00:34:58

rather than fostering 'em.

612

: 00:35:00

Oh, definitely.

613

: 00:35:00

The whole time from, them reaching an

age and size that they can be spayed,

614

: 00:35:05

neutered, and then go up for adoption.

615

: 00:35:08

Finn: Oh, and not only that, but imagine

how many more fosters you would have.

616

: 00:35:14

If your fosters knew that they could

go away for the weekend and there

617

: 00:35:18

would be somebody that could take their

pet, their foster for the weekend,

618

: 00:35:22

and so they wouldn't have to cancel

their trip or not, or choose between

619

: 00:35:25

fostering and or taking a trip.

620

: 00:35:29

Or they just knew like, Hey, these

kittens are driving me nuts and

621

: 00:35:32

I just need a break for 24 hours.

622

: 00:35:35

If they knew that was an option.

623

: 00:35:37

And I wish I had this study in front of

me, but there was a great study and one

624

: 00:35:41

of the big from, I wanna say Maddie's

fund, and one of the biggest fears that

625

: 00:35:45

people had about fostering was not knowing

how long they would have the animal.

626

: 00:35:49

And so if you have short-term

foster, you can become a lot more

627

: 00:35:52

flexible with your long-term fosters.

628

: 00:35:54

You can tell them like, Hey, we've

got Becky, she only does weekends, if.

629

: 00:35:59

You wanna foster, but you know that

you'd like to have your weekends free,

630

: 00:36:03

then we can still use you as a foster.

631

: 00:36:05

That's great.

632

: 00:36:06

So it opens the pool of fosters

up a lot bigger and I do think

633

: 00:36:10

it could work for an adult cat.

634

: 00:36:12

But just like with doggy day out, you

don't send every dog on a doggy day out.

635

: 00:36:18

Obviously there are some dogs

that it's just not gonna work for.

636

: 00:36:21

Right?

637

: 00:36:21

Be it because they're very reactive.

638

: 00:36:23

And it would be the same thing with cats.

639

: 00:36:25

Like you would not send that shy cat

on a weekend foster, but kittens or

640

: 00:36:30

like the big Tom who just got neutered,

who's got cheeks out to the walls, who

641

: 00:36:34

just like rolls over on his stomach

every time anyone looks at him.

642

: 00:36:38

Like, yeah, send him

out to a weekend Foster.

643

: 00:36:40

Great.

644

: 00:36:41

Dixie: And even if they didn't get

adopted by the people that are doing the

645

: 00:36:44

temporary fostering, it gets 'em more

socialized And get 'em more exposure.

646

: 00:36:50

Finn: and the more you can give your

foster homes flexibility, the more foster

647

: 00:36:54

homes you'll have, the more you will give.

648

: 00:36:57

And also even just having a short

term foster for a cat that's

649

: 00:37:02

returned that happens in rescue.

650

: 00:37:04

People adopt a kitten and then they

realize, I don't know, maybe their

651

: 00:37:08

kids are too rough for it, or something

like that, and they need to return it.

652

: 00:37:13

And you don't have a

foster home available.

653

: 00:37:15

You call a weekend foster person, and that

at least buys you some time or a short

654

: 00:37:19

term foster to make a longer term plan for

that animal I am a firm believer in short

655

: 00:37:26

term foster and also a lot of people.

656

: 00:37:29

That start at short-term fosters, I

think that's something like up to 37%

657

: 00:37:33

will convert to longer term fostering.

658

: 00:37:36

So it's a great gateway drug for people

to get into to get their feet wet with

659

: 00:37:42

fostering until they get comfortable

enough to take on long-term fosters.

660

: 00:37:46

Dixie: Another thing too, with a

doggy day out and doing say the

661

: 00:37:49

weekend is it ever an issue where

people might flake out, bring the dog.

662

: 00:37:56

Home, say like on a Friday the shelter

could be closed on a Saturday, but

663

: 00:38:00

then they like totally flake out

and they're like, I can't do this.

664

: 00:38:03

I need to bring the dog back.

665

: 00:38:04

Is that ever a problem?

666

: 00:38:05

Finn: Yeah, I mean I

definitely, I believe it is.

667

: 00:38:09

Where we are not a shelter.

668

: 00:38:12

We're a national initiative and

I work with a lot of shelters

669

: 00:38:14

and I have heard of that program.

670

: 00:38:16

And again, that's a guardrail

you have to have in place.

671

: 00:38:20

And one of the things we always

tell people to do is to have

672

: 00:38:23

one dedicated cell phone number.

673

: 00:38:25

Most shelters already have an emergency

line either for the, just for the ACOs

674

: 00:38:30

or for the regular foster base in case

something either longer term foster

675

: 00:38:35

base in case there's an emergency.

676

: 00:38:37

Or just having a burner cell phone that

you use for it that somebody is carrying

677

: 00:38:43

if there are dogs out for the weekend

so that person has a number to call,

678

: 00:38:47

where there will always be a person

on the other end that can take the dog

679

: 00:38:51

and bring it back into the shelter.

680

: 00:38:52

Be it a manager or something like that.

681

: 00:38:55

Dixie: And for listeners who

might be interested in a doggy

682

: 00:38:58

day out either for their.

683

: 00:39:00

Group or to even contact their shelter,

to tell their shelter about this program.

684

: 00:39:07

How would they go ahead to get

'em to get started with this?

685

: 00:39:11

Finn: But if you are just a person in

an area and you wanna take a dog out and

686

: 00:39:16

see if there's shelters around you mutual

Rescue has a doggy day out directory

687

: 00:39:20

that goes by state of shelters that we

know have programs and that have been

688

: 00:39:25

asked to be added to the directory.

689

: 00:39:27

And there's over a hundred in

shelters in that directory.

690

: 00:39:31

Just because your shelter is not

listed in that directory does not

691

: 00:39:35

mean that they do not have a program.

692

: 00:39:37

I do know of some programs that have asked

not to be listed because the demand for

693

: 00:39:42

this program is so high that they book

up far in advance, and so they don't

694

: 00:39:47

want any more advertisement for it.

695

: 00:39:49

But so first of all, my first

suggestion would be check the directory.

696

: 00:39:54

It's mutual rescue.org,

697

: 00:39:56

and then just click on

the doggy day out button.

698

: 00:39:59

The other thing you can do

if you want your shelter to

699

: 00:40:02

have one, is just go ask them.

700

: 00:40:03

I never encourage people to badge

your shelter workers about things.

701

: 00:40:08

But you can always send an email and

suggest, Hey, I heard about this program.

702

: 00:40:12

Do you guys have any plans on

doing this or anything like that?

703

: 00:40:16

And if you do and you want

to, you can send them a link.

704

: 00:40:19

Mutual Rescue has, on their, on that

Doggy Day Out there is page, there

705

: 00:40:23

is a page Doggy Day Out for shelters

and you can send them that page

706

: 00:40:27

where they can download the Doggy

Day Out toolkit and look it over.

707

: 00:40:31

Basically, I would tell, just

tell 'em, ask their shelter.

708

: 00:40:34

And not every shelter can or will have

doggie day out, either because of staffing

709

: 00:40:39

or resource issues, even though there's

a lot of ways to make this program

710

: 00:40:43

work, even with very small staffing.

711

: 00:40:45

I know shelters that have two staff

members that run this program.

712

: 00:40:50

It's a very easy program to

utilize volunteers to run.

713

: 00:40:54

But either because of resources,

because of population, or because of

714

: 00:40:59

like odd municipality laws which are

really weird all over the country.

715

: 00:41:04

But, a lot of shelters do have it.

716

: 00:41:07

I can tell you there, there's programs

in Alaska and Wyoming and when, if you

717

: 00:41:11

can go to Alaska and take a dog out,

you probably can take one out near you,

718

: 00:41:15

Dixie: Uhhuh.

719

: 00:41:16

Yeah.

720

: 00:41:17

Well, thank you so much for

sharing the information on

721

: 00:41:20

these two programs, the language

accessibility and the doggy day out.

722

: 00:41:24

I know personally, I'm gonna go take

a look at the flyers that you have.

723

: 00:41:29

And share some of those on my

social media to try to reach some

724

: 00:41:32

of the Spanish speaking population.

725

: 00:41:35

And I'm also considering trying

to do a a weekend foster for

726

: 00:41:38

cats and see how that goes.

727

: 00:41:40

Finn: I definitely would.

728

: 00:41:41

I would try piloting

it maybe with kittens.

729

: 00:41:44

When I was.

730

: 00:41:45

Younger, I briefly worked in the child,

in at a group home for foster children.

731

: 00:41:51

And respite fostering was a really, was

an integral part of that foster system

732

: 00:41:56

for people which were weekend fosters that

would give the regular fosters a break if

733

: 00:42:01

they needed to go outta town or one week

fosters, and so respite, call it short

734

: 00:42:06

term foster, call it Weekend Warriors.

735

: 00:42:09

You can come up with a

lot of fun names for it.

736

: 00:42:11

What is the one that I

think Animal Foundation has?

737

: 00:42:14

Like the gruel Gobblers.

738

: 00:42:19

But yeah, definitely I think it's a

great idea for cats and honestly, once

739

: 00:42:23

we get through getting the language

accessibility thing turned in, it's

740

: 00:42:28

definitely something I would a project

I would wanna consider working on doing

741

: 00:42:31

a toolkit for looking to research about.

742

: 00:42:33

Dixie: Both of them are really

great programs and I didn't

743

: 00:42:35

know about either one of 'em.

744

: 00:42:37

Now before we end the call, is there

anything else that you would like to add?

745

: 00:42:42

Finn: No just, I'm very

grateful to be on today.

746

: 00:42:47

Thank you so much.

747

: 00:42:48

If you have any suggestions for

more cat focused handouts that

748

: 00:42:53

are needed, please let me know.

749

: 00:42:55

We are working on what to do

if you find kittens and on

750

: 00:42:59

caring for neonatal handouts.

751

: 00:43:01

In Spanish because we

had a request for that.

752

: 00:43:04

Actually, there's a couple of groups

in LA that do cat foster and the

753

: 00:43:08

majority of their foster base is Spanish

speaking , so we know that, there

754

: 00:43:12

is a culture of animal welfare and.

755

: 00:43:15

Families really deeply love their pets

and wanna help and why not engage them,

756

: 00:43:19

Dixie: I could definitely collaborate

with you on stuff for cats.

757

: 00:43:23

I teach a bottle feeding and foster class,

and I would love to be able to reach

758

: 00:43:27

more people because there's not enough.

759

: 00:43:29

Cat fosters or bottle feeders as there is.

760

: 00:43:32

So the more people that we

could get involved, the better.

761

: 00:43:35

Finn: Exactly.

762

: 00:43:35

All right, well, thank

you so much for having me.

763

: 00:43:38

Dixie: All right, well, thank you.

764

: 00:43:39

I appreciate it.

765

: 00:43:40

We hope you join us next week.

766

: 00:43:42

If you know somebody that loves animals

as much as I do, please send 'em our way.

767

: 00:43:46

We would love to talk to 'em.

768

: 00:43:47

If you are enjoying our show, please

consider leaving us a donation.

769

: 00:43:51

A hundred percent goes to our animals

770

: 00:43:57

Paws in

771

: 00:44:02

the night Claws in the

fight Whiskers twitch and

772

: 00:44:13

tails

773

: 00:44:16

take flight

774

: 00:44:17

They’re calling in Stories to spin

From the wild to the heart within

775

: 00:44:24

Broken wings and hopeful springs

We’re the voices for these things

776

: 00:44:30

animal posse hear the call.

777

: 00:44:35

We stand together.

778

: 00:44:38

Big and small Rescue tales We’ve

got it all Animal posse Saving

779

: 00:44:52

them

780

: 00:44:58

all

781

: 00:44:59

The vet’s got tips The rescuer’s

grit The foster homes where love

782

: 00:45:05

won’t quit From a pup in the rain to

a bird in pain , Every soul’s worth

783

: 00:45:20

the

784

: 00:45:22

strain

785

: 00:45:24

Animal posse

786

: 00:45:32

Hear the call

787

: 00:45:39

We stand together Big

788

: 00:45:45

and small Rescue tales We’ve got

it all Animal posse Saving them all

789

: 00:45:54

Every caller tells a tale, every

howl a whispered wail, we rise up.

790

: 00:46:00

We never

791

: 00:46:06

fail.

792

: 00:46:09

This

793

: 00:46:11

is

794

: 00:46:13

the

795

: 00:46:20

bond

796

: 00:46:24

The holy grail

797

: 00:46:26

Animal posse Hear the call We stand

together Big and small Rescue tales We’ve

798

: 00:46:42

got it all Animal posse Saving them all

799

: 00:46:50

Every caller tells a tale Every howl

a whispered wail We rise up We never

800

: 00:46:58

fail This is the bond The holy grail.

801

: 00:47:02

Song by Suno.ai