Karen Slomba on Spay & Neuter Solutions

Dixie: 00:00:02

Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the

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people and rescues making a

difference in the lives of animals.

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Thank you for coming on

the show today, Karen.

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I am eager to learn about.

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The unique jobs you have in

the animal welfare community.

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It seems like you do a lot.

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I understand your group's

Slomba Shelter Solutions.

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It plays a unique role in the

animal welfare community by helping

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shelters and rescues improving their

operations and thus saving more lives.

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I can't wait to hear about that

specific need that your group fills.

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But before we start with that, can you

tell us how you came to be involved

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in animal rescue and animal welfare?

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Karen: Yeah, interestingly

enough, it was: 2001

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of dates me, but it was 2001.

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I was living in Buffalo, New York, and I.

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Went to a PetSmart and saw a cat that I

fell in love with, and so foolishly, I

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called the director of the rescue and I'm

like, Hey, can you tell me about this cat?

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And she's sure, do you wanna adopt it?

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I'm like.

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No, I just wanna know about the cat

now that I've been in rescue forever.

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The kind of person I was at that moment is

the kind of person that makes us all crazy

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'cause like, why are you wasting my time?

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But it was an organization

called 10 Lives Club and very

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small organization at the time.

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And I started volunteering for

them and the next thing I knew

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I was running their shelter.

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The next thing I knew I was their

director of operations, and then I

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got recruited to a shelter in Florida.

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Now, before I go into the

Florida thing, let me tell you

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that 10 Lives Club now today.

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25 years later is adopting out about

3,500 cats a year, which is remarkable,

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especially since it's just cats.

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And today we brought in 50

cats from Jefferson Parish.

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Animal shelter.

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So we were really excited about that.

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Excited to be able to help J Paws

and excited to bring animals here

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that we knew we could get into homes.

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So that was fun.

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Dixie: Yeah that's amazing.

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50 cats.

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Wow.

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Karen: And from Jefferson Parish

especially, because, that's where

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you're calling me from is, Louisiana.

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So it's like how ironic.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so then I just went into

animal sheltering for a lot of years.

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I was a directors of a place called

Cat Depot and then a place called

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Nate's Honor Animal Rescue Center.

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And then I was the executive director of

the Animal Welfare League of Charlotte.

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And to be perfectly honest,

from that last job I was fired,

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which I share with everybody.

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It was like, this happens.

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It's like just like in football,

like coaches get fired and

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they land on their feet.

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Right?

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Sometimes in animal welfare, especially

when you're running a nonprofit,

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sometimes you're board of directors

can, really make life a little hard.

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And so there was a lot of philosophical

differences between myself and my board.

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And one day I walked in my office,

they're like, yeah, we decided

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we're going in another direction.

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And I was blindsided and devastated and.

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What am I gonna do?

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And so I started Slomba Shelter

Solutions just at that time, just

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thinking oh, I guess maybe I can call

my friends and ask them for work.

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I'll do consulting.

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But it just morphed into this thing

that is way bigger than I ever imagined.

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So we do a lot of consulting

for organizations, especially

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in New York because there is a

law now that standardizes, the

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animal care in animal shelters.

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So there is, there are a lot of

things that shelters in New York

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need to learn to be in compliance

with this new law which has been very

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challenging for a lot of shelters.

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And then but it's good to have

guidelines that everybody follows, right?

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And then so we do a lot

of consulting in other.

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States and municipalities on their

operations, but the main focus

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of my business is spay neuter.

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We stop me because I just

keep talking and talking.

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Spay and neuter.

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So our company provides supplemental

spay neuter support mostly for

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animal shelters, but also for some

high volume spay, neuter clinics.

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Across the country.

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So the, the pop-up clinics that we

do at the L-A-S-P-C-A with Spay Mart

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that's just one area where we do them,

but we do them really all over the

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country where there's just not enough

spay neuter appointments for people

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to be able to get their animals done.

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And a lot of the shelters are

having backlogs of spay neuter.

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So we just created teams to go

into shelters around the country.

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We have about.

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I'd say 200, a little over 250

veterinarians that work for us right now.

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And probably 300 ish veterinary

technicians and we travel 'em

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around the country and it's

really been very successful.

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Dixie: When you do these spay neuter

clinics and you staff that, how do

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you go about recruiting the staff?

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And are you able to offer a lower

price for shelters and rescues?

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Karen: Yeah, so what we do is for example,

if I use the L-A-S-P-C-A, for example,

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we were fortunate enough Spay Mart and

myself to get a grant from PetSmart

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Charities that allowed us to offer really

cheap, like $25 surgeries for rescues

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across the Greater New Orleans area.

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It depends on where, what your

funding sources or situations are.

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But our costs are relatively low

because, we're paying our vets and

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vet techs obviously a reasonable rate.

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We don't wanna ask them to volunteer

because that's just not sustainable.

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And then we, pay for the consumables.

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We pay the L-A-S-B-C-A for the

consumables, and then my company

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marks everything up just a

little bit, but not enough where.

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Surgeries like we can easily, even

without a grant, we can do spay neuter

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for $65 a piece which is in our eyes

relatively reasonable when a lot of

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places, a lot of private practices

are asking for $500 for spay neuter.

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So we are able to keep it a

little bit more affordable.

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Dixie: Do you have a permanent.

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Shelter or a permanent clinic for this, or

is this just all strictly like a pop-up?

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Karen: Yeah, it's all popups.

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So we go into, and that's the, our

secret sauce is we go into clinics

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when they're closed, so they're not

utilizing the equipment or the space.

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So we go in and we will, perform our magic

like on, on Saturdays when we do these at.

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The Louisiana SBCA, for example,

we do a hundred cats and then, we

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leave and we clean up and we leave.

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It's like we were never there.

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I always say it's like ServPro

liquid never even happened.

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But the it's.

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It's not in a permanent space.

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We've done them at j ps, we've done

them at a Terrebonne animal shelter.

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So you know, we can really take it

any place where there is available

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equipment and a partner shelter that is

interested in expanding their capacity.

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Dixie: And so if let's say the shelter

or the rescue was short on funds for

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that, then it, would you be able to

do it, like you said, for the $65?

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Karen: Oh yeah.

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Yeah, no, so like, when we had the

grant, we did it for everyone for $25.

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Now that we've run out of that grant

funding, we're able to do it for $65.

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And sometimes, like there's a woman in St.

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Mary's Parish who works so hard

and she pays for a lot of it

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out, out of her own pocket.

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There are cases where I will

discount what I'm getting.

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What my company is making out of

it so that we can make it a little

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bit less expensive for the rescues

who are just really struggling and

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are who are working tirelessly.

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Sometimes we'll do things like that so

we can make it even more affordable.

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Like sometimes we can make it 45.

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We can't really go much lower than 65 on

TNR unfortunately, because that includes

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vaccines and so there's a little bit more.

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Involved in that with the rescues.

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They pay a little bit extra if

they want vaccines, but most of

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the rescues do their own vaccines,

so they don't really need it.

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They just need the surgeries.

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Dixie: That would be great for some

of the rural parishes that we have.

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'cause I know we have a lot of 'em.

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And that's their biggest need.

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Like they can't find the low cost options

like we have here in Jefferson Parish,

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which is a much bigger parish than the

smaller parishes that are around here.

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And some of them don't

even have a shelter.

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Yeah.

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So that would definitely be like a

good thing to to introduce them to.

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Hopefully they can hear this.

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And find out about it

and contact you maybe.

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Karen: Yeah, absolutely.

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We are always interested in creating

new partnerships and especially in

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those areas where there's just nothing.

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It's really great to be able to,

provide services that no one can get.

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The challenge is in those places, is

there gonna be a facility that will allow

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us to come in if they don't have it?

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Like shelters are.

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Usually the no-brainer, because

shelters are like, yes, please,

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spay and neuter cats or dogs.

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And so sometimes we'll have

to partner with a clinic and

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that's not quite always as easy.

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And then, there's like Spay Nation in

Lafayette who have, they've got a mobile

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clinic and so we, we could talk to them

about doing a mobile clinic in, in some.

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Parishes that are like, just have nothing.

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Right now we're mostly doing L-A-S-P-C-A

and Jefferson Parish for the moment.

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, Dixie: How many cats, let's

say just in Louisiana, are you

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doing with these, pop-up clinic

clinics let's say in a given year.

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Karen: We do, we, this year

we've done 'em once a month.

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And we do a hundred cats each time.

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So I guess 1200 cats.

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Does that make sense?

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Dixie: Yes.

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That's a lot.

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Yeah.

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Imagine how many cats that would be.

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Karen: I know if they were

reproducing and we've talked about

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maybe trying to do twice a month.

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But we're just not there yet.

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But always open to other situations.

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As a funny thing, Michelle, who's the

director of Jefferson Parish Animal

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Shelter was here today with her 50 cats.

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And we were talking, I said, I really

wanna get in and do some more public

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surgeries for Jefferson Parish.

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Jefferson Parish is really unique because

you guys have the J-S-P-C-A and you have.

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The fix a feline and fix a canine program.

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So it's very easy for us to do

surgeries anywhere in Jefferson Parish

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because it's the clients don't really

need to find the funding 'cause it's

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there through those two programs.

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I wish everybody had that program.

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It's such a great program that

J-S-B-C-A runs Kudos to them.

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Dixie: Yeah, it is a wonderful program

and it's a shame that there's more

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people that don't take advantage of it.

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Karen: Yeah.

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And I think that it's just that

people, should know about it,

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but they don't know about it.

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So I wish there was a way for everybody to

do a little more education on it, now that

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I think about it, it might be a great.

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Idea to have some of those local

rescues all be promoting JS

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PCA's fix AFE line program and in

addition to their own, of course.

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Really the more that word gets

out, the more animals will

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be done in Jefferson Parish.

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And people don't realize how lucky

they are to live in Jefferson

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Parish if they have pets.

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Dixie: Yeah it's true and it is hard

even though when you tell people

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about the program sometimes it's still

hard to get 'em on board with it too.

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Karen: Tell me why you say that?

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It's just that they don't, just don't

wanna spay and neuter their pets.

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Dixie: I don't know.

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I guess that's the big mystery.

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I know there are situations, if I'm

on social media or something and I

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see somebody that has a has a cat,

especially if they're giving the cat

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away, the first thing that I'm gonna ask

is, Hey, is I can't spayed or neutered?

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Good answer is that cat in an area

where you have low cost spay or

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neuter, because even in Orleans

Parish, they have programs in Orleans.

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Of course we have the one in Jefferson.

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I don't know, like there was one just

the other day, it was a kitten and yeah.

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So my first thing is, okay,

can we keep this kitten?

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It's one kitten.

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Can we keep that kitten in a home?

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Yeah.

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And so I asked the question, hey first

is the kitten spayed or neutered?

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It looks like it's two pounds.

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No telling and of course answer's no.

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Okay.

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Why are you getting rid of the kitten?

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That's the second thing

that I'm gonna ask.

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'cause if it's something, like I

can't afford to get it spayed or

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neutered, or, I need some food.

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Okay let us find a solution for you.

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And so this particular situation

the kitten was not spayed, it was a

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kitten they found that was outside

and they just couldn't have more than

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one, and they needed it gone asap.

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Okay.

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So they had another cat already, but

they weren't willing to work with a

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rescue to try to, get it in a home.

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And they ended up finding a home for

it, which is aggravating because.

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Now it's not because the

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Karen: cat's still not spay.

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Dixie: And and in that situation

too, I was even like, okay, you found

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it a home, have them contact me,

I will give them the information.

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But good is that gonna happen?

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It's just sometimes people seem to

make up excuses too, there was another

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one, it was an adult cat beautiful cat.

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And they had an existing cat in the home.

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So the female cat had five kittens.

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She found homes for all the five kittens.

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Unfortunately, I don't know how

that went with the spay and neuter?

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But the adult cat the mom was not spayed.

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The excuse she used for that was

that it was only five months.

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That since she had her kittens.

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And yeah, of course you

could go get her spayed now.

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You could get her spayed, a month,

a week after she has the kittens.

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Sure.

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And the mantra

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Karen: now is fixed by five.

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Yeah.

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Fixed by the time they're five months.

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Dixie: Yeah.

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So you don't even get into that situation.

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But, of course she didn't do that, so I

was like, okay, let's see what we can do.

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Why are you getting rid of this cat?

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Oh it's not getting

along with my male cat.

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Okay.

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, I'm assuming the male was neutered or she

would've had more kittens and I was Right.

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The male was neutered.

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So I'm like your issue is

the female is not spayed.

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That's your issue.

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If you go spay the female, chances

are it will end up working out with

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a, just a little bit of patience.

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Yeah.

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And no, then it came.

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I can't keep it.

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Okay.

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Let us work with you.

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And we even said there's

a popup clinic coming up.

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We can get you into the pop-up clinic.

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Can you go?

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Oh, always.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Can you get the cat to the pop-up clinic?

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Now it's my car's broken.

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Oh, Lord.

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And so it's just like one

excuse after the other.

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This person ended up contacting

three different rescues.

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All of them offering the same help,

but it's like one of these things

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where she wants to get rid of the

cat, but then she's not willing to

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put up any effort at all in trying

to get the cat into the appointment

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or even bring the cat to somebody

who can go get it spayed or neutered.

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Karen: Yeah.

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It's interesting because when I

ran shelters I used to recognize

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pretty regularly, like by the

time they're calling us, right?

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They're done.

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Like people do not wanna take one extra

step, and if we can figure out how

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to get to them before they're calling

us, if we can figure out how to.

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To get the word out there and

educate the community how simple it

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is, because usually they only call

us when they're at their wits end.

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So that's, that is really frustrating.

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I think that, maybe the answer is.

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Let us come get the cat and have it

spayed and neutered and would you be

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willing, maybe not, but would you be

willing to try it and see if it works

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when she spayed or neutered or foster her?

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'cause we don't have space in the shelter

until we can, help you find a home.

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And sometimes if you meet

'em halfway, they'll do it.

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But the funny thing is with dogs, people

who have dogs, especially men who have

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dogs, I hate to say it, but they're like,

I don't wanna take away his manhood.

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It's are you serious?

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Really?

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: 00:16:40

Like I can't take those,

that dog's testicles.

314

: 00:16:43

I can't do it.

315

: 00:16:44

Like I just, I can't.

316

: 00:16:45

It's a morally disturbing thing to do,

and I'm like no, you don't understand.

317

: 00:16:51

Like we, we really have to do this.

318

: 00:16:54

So that has been a struggle for

me is to have that conversation

319

: 00:16:57

with people who just feel like.

320

: 00:17:00

It's unnatural to take

that from a boy dog.

321

: 00:17:04

Boy.

322

: 00:17:04

Cats are easier because they tend to spray

and their urine tends to smell really bad.

323

: 00:17:10

So people are like, alright,

I gotta get the cat neutered.

324

: 00:17:12

But male dogs are a struggle

to convince some people.

325

: 00:17:16

But you know what?

326

: 00:17:17

We never have a shortage of

people, coming to us to get their

327

: 00:17:21

animals spayed and neutered.

328

: 00:17:23

I'm sorry you've had those struggles.

329

: 00:17:25

'Cause it is frustrating.

330

: 00:17:27

Dixie: Yeah, it is frustrating.

331

: 00:17:28

And I think to me the most

frustrating part is that when they

332

: 00:17:32

want it to happen immediately.

333

: 00:17:34

And they're not willing to

wait a little bit of time.

334

: 00:17:36

'cause a lot of them don't understand

that these people that are in rescues the

335

: 00:17:40

animal shelter's a little bit different,

but people that are in rescues, they work.

336

: 00:17:44

Full time.

337

: 00:17:45

So they're all volunteers and they

cannot always take an animal right

338

: 00:17:51

away when you say, I'm moving tomorrow.

339

: 00:17:53

Can you take this animal?

340

: 00:17:54

You should have given us

a little bit more time.

341

: 00:17:56

Yeah.

342

: 00:17:57

We could have helped you, but not in

just a few hours because we all work.

343

: 00:18:01

Karen: It's sad because I think.

344

: 00:18:03

If people knew that maybe they

would do it differently, but

345

: 00:18:07

they just don't know any better.

346

: 00:18:08

But it puts you guy or the whoever

the rescue is in a horrible bind

347

: 00:18:12

because, half the time you're full.

348

: 00:18:15

So you can't take a cat.

349

: 00:18:17

You could take a cat a week from now,

or two weeks from now, but not today.

350

: 00:18:22

So it's a shame that once again, people

just, they don't, they're not, we are not.

351

: 00:18:28

Educating them enough, and I'm not

sure how to educate them more, but

352

: 00:18:32

I sure wish we could figure it out.

353

: 00:18:34

Dixie: Yeah.

354

: 00:18:34

That would be the thing to figure

out, to definitely get it to the point

355

: 00:18:38

where when they think of getting a

pet that's what they think about.

356

: 00:18:42

'Cause I know for me, that's

how I've always been, yeah.

357

: 00:18:44

I've always grown up and I'm

like, okay, we gotta a new cat.

358

: 00:18:47

We've gotta go get it spayed or neutered.

359

: 00:18:49

And I've been like that

ever since I was a child.

360

: 00:18:52

But it's getting, people.

361

: 00:18:54

To think like that as well.

362

: 00:18:57

Karen: I think that also, it

depends who you grow up with.

363

: 00:19:00

I have run into, young people who

are like my cat's pregnant, and

364

: 00:19:04

I'm like, oh, how did that happen?

365

: 00:19:07

I don't know.

366

: 00:19:08

We used to, growing up, we always had

cats that would come, home pregnant.

367

: 00:19:11

And I'm like, all so the disconnect

was in the family where the family

368

: 00:19:17

didn't make it a priority.

369

: 00:19:19

So this is what these people

have learned growing up.

370

: 00:19:22

So it's like you almost can't blame

anybody for not doing better because

371

: 00:19:27

in most cases, if they knew what an

impact it would have, I'd say a lot of

372

: 00:19:34

them would probably do it or how much.

373

: 00:19:36

It impacts the health of the animal.

374

: 00:19:38

Like a dog or a cat is much less

likely to get testicular cancer

375

: 00:19:44

if they are neutered, right?

376

: 00:19:46

So that right there.

377

: 00:19:47

Same thing with cats, like much

less likely to get mammary cancer

378

: 00:19:52

or ovarian cancer if they're spayed.

379

: 00:19:56

Not to mention like a omera, which

is an infection of the uterus that

380

: 00:20:00

happens, relatively frequently to

unspayed female cats and that's

381

: 00:20:05

fatal if it's not addressed.

382

: 00:20:08

I think if they knew all that,

maybe they do things differently.

383

: 00:20:12

And I do think there that people

feel like their barrier is financial,

384

: 00:20:18

even though there's a fix a feline

program, they just don't know about it.

385

: 00:20:22

Especially if you call your normal

vet, you're just a private practice

386

: 00:20:25

vet and you're like, hi, how much

would it cost to spay my cat?

387

: 00:20:27

And they're like $600.

388

: 00:20:29

Nobody has that kind of money.

389

: 00:20:31

And it's funny 'cause private

practice are raising the prices

390

: 00:20:34

on spay neuter, which is sad.

391

: 00:20:35

Not except for Genevieve Wisdom.

392

: 00:20:37

I'm gonna give a shout out to her.

393

: 00:20:39

'cause she's amazing.

394

: 00:20:40

She keeps her prices low.

395

: 00:20:42

Dixie: Yeah.

396

: 00:20:42

Now I did run into one

situation where I found a cat.

397

: 00:20:47

Very friendly little cat.

398

: 00:20:48

And so I figured he belonged to somebody

just because of the way he was acting.

399

: 00:20:52

And I happened to find the owner of the

cat, and of course he was not neutered.

400

: 00:20:57

So I asked her, I'm like,

Hey, why isn't he neutered?

401

: 00:21:00

And she said she went to go

take him to the vet and the

402

: 00:21:04

vet wanted to charge like $400.

403

: 00:21:06

And I was like, oh, I gotcha.

404

: 00:21:08

So she did let me get 'em neutered.

405

: 00:21:10

Karen: Oh, thank God.

406

: 00:21:11

But, and some people are,

they're like so grateful when

407

: 00:21:14

you give them an alternative.

408

: 00:21:16

I'm on the board of an organization

in Niagara Falls, New York, called

409

: 00:21:19

Better Together Pet Resource Center.

410

: 00:21:21

And this is a consistent thing we

hear, like people come in with pregnant

411

: 00:21:26

cats or adult cats that male cats that

are spraying or, and it's not that

412

: 00:21:32

they don't want to get their animals

fixed, they just can't afford it.

413

: 00:21:37

At regular prices.

414

: 00:21:38

So we did a vaccine clinic

and at our VA vaccine clinic.

415

: 00:21:43

Everyone that showed up it was like

for people who, were not didn't have

416

: 00:21:49

the means to do it on their own.

417

: 00:21:51

So we had this vaccine clinic and we

asked everybody if we were able to

418

: 00:21:55

give you an opportunity to spay and

neuter your cat, would you want it?

419

: 00:21:57

Every single person said yes, everyone.

420

: 00:22:00

And it , wasn't just cats,

it was cats and dogs.

421

: 00:22:02

So we made a deal with one of

the local clinics and we provided

422

: 00:22:08

transportation for all these people.

423

: 00:22:10

So all the people who were able

to get to our vaccine clinic

424

: 00:22:13

just brought their animals there.

425

: 00:22:15

We provided transportation to the clinic.

426

: 00:22:17

'cause transportation's

another big problem.

427

: 00:22:20

So that worked really well and I

was really excited to learn that.

428

: 00:22:25

Every single person there

wanted to get it done.

429

: 00:22:29

They just didn't think that they

could because of the prices.

430

: 00:22:33

Dixie: I've heard that from a few

other people that I have interviewed

431

: 00:22:37

that live in New Jersey and New York.

432

: 00:22:40

So their rescues are in

New Jersey and New York.

433

: 00:22:43

It's funny because they

said the same thing.

434

: 00:22:45

They said over there, it's a financial

barrier, so when they find they

435

: 00:22:49

can get it done they get it done.

436

: 00:22:51

And I was telling them, it's just here.

437

: 00:22:54

It's just so weird because we

have it, but we just cannot get

438

: 00:22:57

the people on board with it.

439

: 00:23:00

Karen: Again, I think it's if more

people understood it was there.

440

: 00:23:05

Then more people would do it, so

the question is maybe , we maybe

441

: 00:23:11

collectively, like everybody in the

rescue arena in the New Orleans area,

442

: 00:23:16

did you do a series of billboards.

443

: 00:23:19

They're not expensive.

444

: 00:23:20

There's a guy actually who owns a lot

of billboards around there who is a.

445

: 00:23:24

A fan of rescue and about the fix

the feline and canine program, but we

446

: 00:23:30

would see a lot more people getting

involved in doing it and having it taken

447

: 00:23:37

care of their pets and the program's

been around for a really long time.

448

: 00:23:42

But you tell me how is

it advertised right now?

449

: 00:23:47

Dixie: Maybe it's 'cause I'm in

rescue, but I see it like all over,

450

: 00:23:50

there's the groups on social media

that aren't just animal groups.

451

: 00:23:54

And they share it everywhere.

452

: 00:23:56

You know what I mean?

453

: 00:23:57

I don't know.

454

: 00:23:58

If we could figure that

out, we're all set.

455

: 00:24:01

Karen: Exactly.

456

: 00:24:02

Honestly, , I mean it would be really

interesting, a fun experiment to

457

: 00:24:07

try to get all the local rescues

to like, at the same time do a mega

458

: 00:24:12

promotion on the fix a feline program.

459

: 00:24:15

Because like for instance, the Louisiana

SPCA, they take fix a feline vouchers.

460

: 00:24:20

I mean they they would do it like

all the Jefferson Parish rescues and

461

: 00:24:25

there are a lot of really good ones.

462

: 00:24:27

Jefferson Parish would also, I

think, try to get the word out.

463

: 00:24:31

But I've learned that social media,

like we all rely on it more than,

464

: 00:24:37

not, more than we should, but

we rely on it as being the only.

465

: 00:24:41

The goal to get the word out and we

forget some of the ways that we used

466

: 00:24:45

to do it before there was social media.

467

: 00:24:47

So I do think that there's, there's a

lot of people who don't have the internet

468

: 00:24:51

or who don't have a Facebook page.

469

: 00:24:53

So they're not seeing that message.

470

: 00:24:57

If you think about it, the private

practices, if somebody comes to them

471

: 00:25:02

and asks to get their animal fixed and

they say it's gonna be $400, they're

472

: 00:25:07

not, they're likely, sadly, the private

practice is not likely to say however.

473

: 00:25:14

We can get it for you with this voucher

where they're gonna make a lot less money.

474

: 00:25:18

That's also a challenge because

they're probably not promoting it,

475

: 00:25:23

but they are re redeeming vouchers,

which right there is really important.

476

: 00:25:27

Like they're doing something good, but

they're not necessarily promoting it.

477

: 00:25:31

Dixie: Back to your clinics

though, when you do your clinics.

478

: 00:25:34

Yeah.

479

: 00:25:34

How long does it take to do a hundred cats

480

: 00:25:38

Karen: Around six hours.

481

: 00:25:40

Five to six hours.

482

: 00:25:42

Depending on if, we get a good

groove going with our surgery

483

: 00:25:46

team we usually start at about

eight o'clock in the morning.

484

: 00:25:49

We're usually done around one,

two o'clock at the latest.

485

: 00:25:53

So that's how long it takes.

486

: 00:25:56

Dogs take longer, but my surgeons

love love, love cat days 'cause cats

487

: 00:26:01

are way easier to spay than a dog.

488

: 00:26:05

Dixie: Yeah.

489

: 00:26:05

And I know a cat neuter is

just a matter of minutes.

490

: 00:26:09

It's like really fast.

491

: 00:26:11

Karen: Yeah.

492

: 00:26:11

It's 30 seconds and for vets who are,

surgeons who are high volume trained,

493

: 00:26:17

like most of our high volume surgeons

will do a spay like in six minutes.

494

: 00:26:23

It's really remarkable to watch.

495

: 00:26:26

Dixie: Yeah.

496

: 00:26:26

Yeah, it is.

497

: 00:26:27

I've actually seen my vet

do a neuter, so I know it.

498

: 00:26:30

I know they're like really fast.

499

: 00:26:32

She was done in just

not even five minutes.

500

: 00:26:35

Karen: Yeah, not enough time for you

to pass out from looking at all at

501

: 00:26:39

the insides of the cat, which happened

to me once when I was watching a

502

: 00:26:43

necropsy, which was really mortifying.

503

: 00:26:45

Dixie: No I watched her do a spay too.

504

: 00:26:47

I was actually fascinated by it.

505

: 00:26:49

I thought it was pretty cool.

506

: 00:26:50

But, oh.

507

: 00:26:51

Karen: You can come and watch our

surgeons do space anytime you want.

508

: 00:26:55

Dixie: When you staff your clinics,

do you use volunteers as well

509

: 00:26:59

or is it all just regular staff?

510

: 00:27:02

Karen: We do, , we use volunteers.

511

: 00:27:04

, We love to have volunteers and we never

feel like we can quite have enough.

512

: 00:27:08

Obviously the technical part

of it has to be done by people

513

: 00:27:13

who are experienced and fast.

514

: 00:27:15

But we have, a lot of people, we try

to get volunteers to help with check-in

515

: 00:27:19

and checkout, which is so important.

516

: 00:27:21

And then we teach.

517

: 00:27:23

Volunteers how to clean the surgical

instruments and wrap 'em up to put them

518

: 00:27:28

in the autoclave for sterilization.

519

: 00:27:31

If we have a lot of ferals, we are always

excited if we have a volunteer who will

520

: 00:27:36

help us with cleaning the traps while

the cat is in the, on the surgery table.

521

: 00:27:41

Yeah, so there's a lot of

opportunities for volunteers.

522

: 00:27:44

And usually we have.

523

: 00:27:48

Plenty, but sometimes we don't have

quite enough and it makes us sad.

524

: 00:27:53

It makes our teams have to

work a little bit harder.

525

: 00:27:56

Always, I always want volunteers

if anyone's listening, who

526

: 00:28:00

might be interested in that.

527

: 00:28:02

And the volunteers are

recruited through spay.

528

: 00:28:05

Dixie: And that would be for local.

529

: 00:28:07

How many states , do you do this in?

530

: 00:28:09

Karen: Right now we are in, let me

see if I can do this real quick.

531

: 00:28:13

New York Florida, like hugely in Florida.

532

: 00:28:17

That's our biggest market.

533

: 00:28:18

Louisiana, Mississippi New Mexico.

534

: 00:28:23

Texas.

535

: 00:28:24

We're working on Chicago and

Massachusetts, Georgia, South Carolina.

536

: 00:28:30

I think that's it right now, but

we're looking for world dominance.

537

: 00:28:35

I'm just kidding.

538

: 00:28:36

Where, any state that calls us and

has an interest and has a little

539

: 00:28:39

bit of funding to make it happen,

we will, mobilize and make it work.

540

: 00:28:46

Some states are a little

harder, like for example, in.

541

: 00:28:51

New York, if you're a vet tech,

you have to be a licensed vet tech

542

: 00:28:55

in New York and you have to have

your license from New York State.

543

: 00:28:59

So it limits our pool of technicians

that we have to work with.

544

: 00:29:04

Whereas in Louisiana, you

don't have to be licensed.

545

: 00:29:07

So in the event we are doing an, we're

doing a popup clinic and we have two

546

: 00:29:12

surgeons and we need seven technicians.

547

: 00:29:15

If I only have five local technicians who

are available that weekend, then I can fly

548

: 00:29:20

technicians in from Florida and I'm not

worried about the licensing piece of it.

549

: 00:29:26

Whereas in New York, it's oh, I

can't fly somebody in from Florida.

550

: 00:29:29

'cause they're not licensed.

551

: 00:29:32

The weird thing, every state has different

rules, so it makes it complicated.

552

: 00:29:38

But, we love the states that don't have

the licensing requirements for Fed Techs.

553

: 00:29:43

, Dixie: When you do have a pop-up clinic,

where are your staff coming from?

554

: 00:29:48

Do they like live in the cities

and the states that you're

555

: 00:29:51

using, or do you fly them in?

556

: 00:29:55

Karen: It depends on where we are.

557

: 00:29:57

So like with Louisiana and Florida, for

example, I have enough technicians locally

558

: 00:30:04

that there's no point in flying them in.

559

: 00:30:07

Dixie: You said that you also do

like consulting with the shelters?

560

: 00:30:11

Yes.

561

: 00:30:13

When you do consulting with

the shelters I'm just curious.

562

: 00:30:15

You mentioned there's this new law

in New York, so can I ask about that?

563

: 00:30:20

Karen: Yeah.

564

: 00:30:20

It's a really crazy law and

we're all really curious to

565

: 00:30:24

see how it's gonna play out.

566

: 00:30:26

So it's called the.

567

: 00:30:28

New York State Companion Animal.

568

: 00:30:32

Wait, let me think if I can remember this.

569

: 00:30:34

New York State Companion Animal Standard

of Care Act, which is really long.

570

: 00:30:40

And as of December 1st, all

shelters have to comply with this

571

: 00:30:45

this law, which is very extensive.

572

: 00:30:48

So it's certain.

573

: 00:30:52

For example, there are legal

dimensions of cages to hold

574

: 00:30:57

animals in that are acceptable.

575

: 00:31:00

And hey, if you have cages that are

smaller than that, it's not in compliance.

576

: 00:31:06

And so it's basically against the

law to house an animal that way.

577

: 00:31:11

The law also requires.

578

: 00:31:13

That you have written protocols for

every aspect of your operations and

579

: 00:31:18

especially your medical protocols.

580

: 00:31:21

If you have a veterinary staff, the

law requires that you have training

581

: 00:31:26

manuals that are approved by the state.

582

: 00:31:29

It's really crazy like training manuals

that, so you have a whole training

583

: 00:31:35

component of your shelter and it's not

just Hey, we just have 'em shadow us.

584

: 00:31:40

There has to be materials for training.

585

: 00:31:43

So there's a lot of things

that, a lot of rescues.

586

: 00:31:48

Are very nervous because they're

like, we're just a little rescue.

587

: 00:31:51

Like I did a consult with an organization

not too long ago, and they're in a

588

: 00:31:57

storefront and they adopt kittens out,

really, mostly only kittens, and they're

589

: 00:32:04

a free roaming, for lack of a better term.

590

: 00:32:08

It's almost like an adoption center.

591

: 00:32:11

But the animals live there, so

they're considered a shelter.

592

: 00:32:15

And I've really struggled with this one

because they don't have the appropriate

593

: 00:32:19

living space according to the law.

594

: 00:32:22

Okay?

595

: 00:32:23

And they all the animals are free roaming.

596

: 00:32:26

And there's, if you have free

roaming cats, the law says, and

597

: 00:32:30

this is nuts, the law says you

can only have 12 cats in a room.

598

: 00:32:35

And it doesn't matter how big the room is.

599

: 00:32:36

So if the room is ginormous.

600

: 00:32:38

Only 12 animals.

601

: 00:32:39

And that to me is very arbitrary, but

it's what they came up with in this law.

602

: 00:32:45

So they usually have 30 little

kittens running around this space.

603

: 00:32:49

To me it's not an ideal way to

do it, but it works for them.

604

: 00:32:53

They don't have a lot of illness.

605

: 00:32:55

They take precautions to make sure that

they're weighing the kittens regularly

606

: 00:33:00

to make sure that everybody's eating.

607

: 00:33:02

And when I say kittens, not

teeny tinies, but four month old.

608

: 00:33:05

Three month old.

609

: 00:33:07

And they're doing good work.

610

: 00:33:08

They're getting animals into

homes and for me, it's very hard

611

: 00:33:13

for me to tell them, you guys.

612

: 00:33:18

The way you're set up, you might

not be able to continue to operate.

613

: 00:33:21

That's a very hard thing.

614

: 00:33:23

But the way the law is set up is

that the Department of Agriculture

615

: 00:33:27

will come in and they will inspect,

and as they inspect, they can issue

616

: 00:33:34

fines or they can shut a shelter down.

617

: 00:33:37

So on one hand, it's a great law because

it'll, it'll keep us from having.

618

: 00:33:43

Rescues who are spinning outta

control, if that makes sense.

619

: 00:33:47

Like rescues who have too

many cats and the animals are

620

: 00:33:49

not humanely being cared for.

621

: 00:33:52

But one of the big fears as

we roll into this law is that.

622

: 00:33:57

A lot of rescues are gonna be forced to

shut down, which is not gonna be helpful

623

: 00:34:03

it's a very interesting time in New York,

624

: 00:34:06

but if the Department of Agriculture

ends up shutting, rescues down,

625

: 00:34:11

I do think that we'll go back in

and try to amend the legislation.

626

: 00:34:16

But it's gonna be really interesting.

627

: 00:34:19

The other kind of consulting that we do

is we go into shelters and help them.

628

: 00:34:25

Rewrite their SOPs and maybe assist

them in coming up with programs

629

: 00:34:30

that are working around the country.

630

: 00:34:32

But that specific shelter doesn't

really know about the program.

631

: 00:34:36

There are like kitten diversion programs

for shelters that not everybody uses.

632

: 00:34:41

And there's a managed admission is

something that not everybody does.

633

: 00:34:45

It's helpful for them to learn.

634

: 00:34:48

I love to think that, everybody

wants to hire me, but it's not me.

635

: 00:34:52

It's really, I have a lot of people

that I know, like I have a very wide

636

: 00:34:56

network of experts in the field,

and I'm very lucky to have that.

637

: 00:35:00

So I just basically look at a shelter,

say, what are you looking for?

638

: 00:35:04

Like even one shelter, they're

hiring all new staff because they're

639

: 00:35:08

about to open their new building.

640

: 00:35:10

And they're like, can you help us hire?

641

: 00:35:12

So it just depends on what the

need is, and then I'll find the

642

: 00:35:15

expert and put 'em together.

643

: 00:35:18

So that's really what we do.

644

: 00:35:20

I wish I had more time to personally

do consults, but 'cause I love it.

645

: 00:35:24

It's fun to help people be better,

but it's a lot and we have a

646

: 00:35:28

very tiny team in terms of admin.

647

: 00:35:31

There's a lot to do.

648

: 00:35:33

Dixie: Looking ahead, what is the

biggest goal you hope to achieve

649

: 00:35:37

in the next five years to further

your cause of animal welfare?

650

: 00:35:41

Karen: I would say looking ahead

in the next five years, ultimately

651

: 00:35:45

I would like to be in all 50

states, spaying, neutering animals.

652

: 00:35:49

To me, the consulting stuff is fun.

653

: 00:35:51

It's a nice little offshoot,

but honestly, people.

654

: 00:35:55

Spaying and neutering.

655

: 00:35:57

If we're not doing that,

we're spinning our wheels.

656

: 00:35:59

And so ultimately I'd like

to be able to do that.

657

: 00:36:03

Oh, and the other thing, and I don't know

if I can do this in five years, maybe.

658

: 00:36:07

Six.

659

: 00:36:08

No, I'm just kidding.

660

: 00:36:09

Maybe I'm just teasing.

661

: 00:36:10

One of my major goals major goals is to

start, and I'm actually partnering with

662

: 00:36:16

some really cool organizations on this,

but starting to figure out how we can

663

: 00:36:20

train more veterinarians to do high volume

spay neuter, because a lot of times I have

664

: 00:36:27

veterinarians who come to me and say, Hey,

I'd really like to participate in your.

665

: 00:36:31

In your pop-up clinics and I have to tell

them no, because you're not fast enough.

666

: 00:36:35

I don't wanna say it quite that way,

but it's , if they don't have the

667

: 00:36:37

speed, then we can't provide the

numbers that we're contracted to do.

668

: 00:36:42

So if we can train more people, and

then you think about it like the private

669

: 00:36:47

practitioners who do a 45 minute spay.

670

: 00:36:50

If we can teach them to do even

a 10 minute spay, then they

671

: 00:36:54

can probably do more, right?

672

: 00:36:56

Like more in a day.

673

: 00:36:58

A day, because time is money.

674

: 00:37:00

If they, if it takes 'em 45 minutes to

do it, that's their time for 45 minutes.

675

: 00:37:06

But if you teach 'em to do it

quicker, then they could do four

676

: 00:37:09

surgeries in that time or five,

and they're not gonna lose money.

677

: 00:37:14

Does that make sense?

678

: 00:37:15

It does.

679

: 00:37:17

Yeah, so we wanna do that.

680

: 00:37:18

We wanna teach a lot of like

students coming outta school.

681

: 00:37:21

What's really terrifying is when

students graduate from vet school,

682

: 00:37:26

most of them have only one or two

spas or neuter under their belt, and

683

: 00:37:31

then they go into private practice and

they're like, oh my gosh, can I do it?

684

: 00:37:36

It's scary.

685

: 00:37:36

It's scary to them.

686

: 00:37:37

So we'd love to be able to.

687

: 00:37:40

And put together some coaching

scenarios for students so they can

688

: 00:37:45

get more experience actually doing the

surgeries with coaches who will make

689

: 00:37:50

sure that they're, gaining confidence.

690

: 00:37:53

And then it's, it, we have more,

if they can be confident and feel

691

: 00:37:57

good about what they're doing, we're

gonna have more surgeons a more.

692

: 00:38:00

People graduating from vet school

who wanna be spay surgeons.

693

: 00:38:05

Our biggest dilemma is that it's

hard for them to have the confidence

694

: 00:38:08

to do it or to build their speed.

695

: 00:38:11

So if we can provide opportunities

for students to do that, then

696

: 00:38:15

that's a win for the universe.

697

: 00:38:17

Dixie: Definitely.

698

: 00:38:18

Karen: Yeah.

699

: 00:38:19

Yeah.

700

: 00:38:19

So I think training is a big

piece of what I'd like to do and

701

: 00:38:22

make, just trying to provide more

spay neuter around the country.

702

: 00:38:26

Dixie: Before we end the call, I would

like to know how many spays and neuter

703

: 00:38:31

with all of your pop-up clinics do you

estimate that you have done in a year?

704

: 00:38:37

Karen: That's so hard 'cause I just, I

haven't counted and I should, I would

705

: 00:38:41

say probably, this is such a ballpark.

706

: 00:38:44

I'd say probably 30,000.

707

: 00:38:47

Dixie: Wow.

708

: 00:38:50

And to think about that and then just to

imagine what the number could have been

709

: 00:38:54

Karen: I know.

710

: 00:38:55

I swear, even if you do

a hundred, it's like.

711

: 00:38:58

The numbers are astronomical when you

think about what you're preventing.

712

: 00:39:03

But yeah, we do a lot of surgeries

in a lot of places, so I'm gonna say

713

: 00:39:08

30,000 is probably my best guess.

714

: 00:39:11

Dixie: Wow.

715

: 00:39:12

Thank you so much for

coming on the show today.

716

: 00:39:14

I enjoyed speaking with you.

717

: 00:39:17

Karen: I enjoyed speaking with

you and thank you for having me.

718

: 00:39:19

That's all the time that we

have for today's episode.

719

: 00:39:22

Thank you for listening.

720

: 00:39:23

If you are enjoying our show, please

consider leaving us a donation.

721

: 00:39:27

A hundred percent goes to our animals.