Animal Posse Lost Pet Recovery: Expert Tips from Professional Pet Trackers - Animal Posse

Episode 18

Lost Pet Recovery: Expert Tips from Professional Pet Trackers

Published on: 30th May, 2025

Losing a beloved pet is terrifying—but knowing what to do immediately can make all the difference. In this episode of Animal Posse, we sit down with Carmen Brothers of Professional Pet Trackers to explore the ins and outs of finding lost pets, using expert tracking methods, and avoiding common mistakes that delay recovery.

What You’ll Learn:

The first critical steps when a pet goes missing

How scent trails help locate lost animals

Real-life rescue stories from professional tracking cases

Whether you're a pet owner, animal rescuer, or just want to be prepared, this episode is a must-listen!

Learn more about Carmen’s work at Professional Pet Trackers

#LostPetHelp #FindMyPet #MissingPets #AnimalRescue #PetSafety #AnimalPossePodcast #RescueStories

Transcript
Dixie:

Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the

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people and rescues making a

difference in the lives of animals.

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Today's guest is Carmen Brothers

with Professional Pet Trackers,

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and we are gonna discuss lost Pets.

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Hi, Carmen.

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How are you?

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Carmen: I'm good, thank you.

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Dixie: I am excited to speak

with you about Lost Pets.

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That's a passion of mine.

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Can you share your story behind the

founding of Professional Pet Trackers

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and how you got started doing this?

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Carmen: Sure.

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So I was volunteering with a rescue.

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I.

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Back in, it's been so

long 20 10, 20 11 ish.

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And they lost a dog.

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And I got into the logistics of the

flyers and the, don't call your dog

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and everything that goes into loss of

behavior and would a cover a lost dog?

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And it just spiraled from there.

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I became one of the two lost dog

coordinators for City Dogs Rescue

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in Washington, DC and, obviously we

bought in a canine tracker and that

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kind of thing, and it just grabbed me

and I just started going from there.

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I guess probably in 20 15, 20

16 ish, I started running a

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tracking dog volunteering with

a nonprofit out of Baltimore.

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Then come 2017, I was approached by

National Geographic to do a show like

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a docuseries on tracking lost pets.

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And the caveat was that I would

have to quit my normal full-time

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job with, the stability and all that

good stuff and benefits and whatnot.

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Adults like to have and film

full-time for roughly a year and

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kind of see where that took me.

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So I, I did and I never went back.

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Dixie: That's a very interesting story.

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Carmen: It's a little different.

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Dixie: It is.

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Definitely.

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When you were doing the Lost Pets with

the rescue, can you explain how that

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was different between what you did

then and then what you're doing now?

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Carmen: So what I did

then was essentially.

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I guess almost delegate more, right?

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Like I would come up with a flyer

and figure out where to post flyers

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and have volunteers, figure out where

to send volunteers to post flyers.

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Flyering is still probably the number one

way to get pets home because even with a

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canine tracker, you still need sightings.

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To go to the next phase,

which would be trapping.

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And so I was, again, putting up, getting

flyers together, hanging 'em up to

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volunteers and sending groups in different

places of DC to get flyers up to.

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And then when we brought in a canine

tracker who I had, gone online and

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found, she was able to narrow down

that search areas dramatically.

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And guide us more on the lost

pet behavior side of things.

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The whole lost pet circle and they tend

to stay near water and, again, they're

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most active between desk and dawn.

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Just some things that normally

people don't know unless

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they've been through it before.

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And so working with her and then having

several other lost dogs follow that while

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I was still volunteering with City Dogs.

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City Dogs Rescue in dc we would bring

her back in and put all those actions

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into place and use all the different,

all the different systems we could.

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To gather data per se, to figure out

where, Maddie or whomever had gone.

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And then once we had a sighting or we had

a good area to put, a camera and a trap

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at, we would go from there and do that.

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And then essentially

live trap your lost pet.

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So that way we.

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Bring them to us on their terms, right?

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If they're in a place that they

feel safe, I'd rather 'em stay there

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in that place than have a bunch of

search parties or, even a tracking

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dog come barely through that area

and unintentionally move your pet.

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Dixie: What are some of the most

common misconceptions people

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have about finding a lost pet?

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Carmen: And again I get

where it comes from.

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It's human instinct, right?

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Your dog fluffy goes missing and you see

your dog fluffy running down the road.

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What are you gonna do?

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You're out, there goes my dog, I'm

gonna go chase my dog and call my dog

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because at home, fluffy comes barely

into your lap when you're running

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around or when you're calling him.

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But once a pet's been out for a little

while, they go into what they call

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flight mode, meaning they no longer

associate you with sight or sound.

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It's all about scent.

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Everything to them is predatory, right?

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So what works at home is no longer

a thing because they need to be able

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to get close enough to mom or dad

or whomever to be able to smell them

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for that switch to flip back and

realize, wait a minute, that's mom.

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That's my person, and approach you.

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But while they're out on their

own, again, everything's predatory.

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And if you think about it, what do

predators do when they're stalking prey?

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They're standing upright.

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They're making direct eye

contact and moving towards you.

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So those are the three things that we

say you absolutely do not want to do.

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You wanna get down on the ground you

want, don't wanna make direct eye contact,

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and you need to let them approach you.

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And it's a waiting game.

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I've seen it take five minutes.

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I've also seen it take about seven hours.

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Dixie: Would that be the same

with cats as it is with dogs?

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Carmen: Cats are a little different.

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Cats are actually, cats

are a little harder.

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While they don't actually go as far

they tend to not, you don't get the

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sightings called in that you would

with the German Shepherd because

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cats are gonna stay, close to a house

or under bushes and slink around.

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And then a lot of times people will see

your cat and they even see the flyers.

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They're gonna assume that it's an

outdoor cat or it's a feral cat

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or community cat and what have

you, and not necessarily call you.

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So getting the sightings for cats is just,

again, it's a whole process in itself.

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And I find people, that call in sightings

for lost cats are actually, trying, right?

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But ideally they take a picture

when they see the cat and text it

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to the number on the flyer because.

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No one knows their cat, like mom and

dad, like there's, a tuxedo cat out

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in Richmond and how many tuxedo cats

do you think there are in Richmond?

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And so people will be like, oh,

that's a black and white cat.

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That must be, our missing cat.

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And we have yet to get a picture.

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But I can tell you the one area we're

focused on, there's probably about eight

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tuxedo cats in that area that are not

the one and only we're looking for.

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So without that picture or

without a sent dog to verify, it's

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significantly harder to determine

if that's actually the missing pet.

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Or is it just, the neighbor's cat

that's out and about during the day?

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Dixie: I see that all the time.

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I do run some lost pets groups,

and if it's a tabby cat, oh, that's

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the tabby cat that's missing.

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And it's no.

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Clearly it's a totally

different tabby cat.

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Carmen: Or sometimes we'll actually

get the picture and we're looking for

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like a black cat and we get a picture

of a Persian, and I'm like, huh.

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Thanks for calling.

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However, and again, getting

sightings on cats is a struggle.

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The struggle is real.

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And so the fact that they're actually

taking the time to take the picture,

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obviously I'm all about that.

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Yay.

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Thank you so much.

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The fact it's the wrong cat and

it's the totally wrong color.

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Yay.

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Okay.

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But at least you got the picture,

so you know, we're getting there.

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It's a process.

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Dixie: Absolutely.

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In your experience, what are the

most crucial first steps a pet

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owner should take immediately after

realizing their pet is missing?

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Carmen: So if you're within

the first, hour or two, right?

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Again, no chasing.

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I would say the first hour two, sure.

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Call your dog like you

normally would at home.

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By no means am I saying get a megaphone

out there because I've seen people do

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that and that's really never a good idea.

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But ideally, you're gonna get something

with the owner scent out outside

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to wherever you last saw your dog.

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If you can get some kind of stinky

food, whether it be hamburgers,

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bacon, throw something in some liquid

smoke and get it to the wood liner or

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whatnot, that would be great as well.

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And then start working on a flyer.

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I'd say within the first 24 hours.

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Ideally, you have roughly anywhere

from a hundred to 150 flyers

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posted throughout the area.

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And then make sure you're, updating your

social media, whether that be next door.

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I find that the Neighbors by Ring app

is really useful, and a lot of people

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don't think of that one because they're

like, oh, I don't have a ring product.

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I can't post on there.

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Actually, you don't need a ring

product to create a ring account.

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You just put the address

in and you can upload it to

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their, animal activity section.

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And that way we're utilizing the

people in the neighborhood who

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already have cameras out to let's

see what they get on their camera.

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Your dog could be running up and down

the street at three in the morning,

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but no one's there to see 'em.

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But the ring cameras won't pick it up.

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Dixie: Yeah, I didn't know that.

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I thought you had to have

a subscription in order to

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Carmen: A ring product.

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Dixie: Yeah.

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Carmen: No Ring product needed to

create the account and, download

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the app and just put it out there.

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Dixie: Yeah, that's some great advice.

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As far as the scents, I always

hear different things about.

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Items that you should be putting

outside because I've heard that

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certain items that you put outside

could be attracting wildlife that

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might not be necessarily so good.

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So is that true?

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Carmen: You're not gonna attract

anything from 22 miles away.

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Anything that is going to show up on your

camera for the food, it's already there.

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It's just we're probably not

paying such close attention to it.

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So generally, again, the best way to

attract your dog home is number one,

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the owner scent paired with, bacon or

so any, even if you don't have food,

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just the liquid smoke in a spray bottle

and kinda spray the area down so it

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smells like the barbecue is gonna help.

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And I strongly recommend a camera

going on wherever you're trying

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to get your dog to come back to.

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Because if he comes back

at two in the morning.

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You're not there to see it.

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You know the food's gonna be

gone, but we're gonna have

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no idea what ate the food.

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Was it Freddie the Fox,

or was it, was it the dog?

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So a camera is also a critical thing, and

these days they're not super expensive.

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You can get a good cellular

trail camera on Amazon for $50.

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Dixie: Would you suggest more

of a trail camera type thing

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versus I guess one of the little

outdoor products that you can get?

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Carmen: If you're at home,

either works because you're gonna

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hopefully have access to wifi.

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But if you're like, for instance today

I was tracking a cat at the Virginia

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Arboretum, which there's no wifi, so

a trail camera that comes with its

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own data plan is much more useful.

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Sometimes People will

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Put like flour down to try to

get paw prints and what have you,

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Dixie: uhhuh.

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Carmen: But I found that the flour, it

can be a quick go-to, but one little, wind

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gust or too many foxes or or if you're

looking for a cat in particular, who's to

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say how many cats you have in that area,

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Dixie: Anything else that you could use

in addition to that or in place of that?

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Carmen: In place of the flour?

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You could try some sand.

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Which compacts down a little, right?

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Better so that the random gust of wind is

not gonna necessarily screw that all up.

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But again, a picture is

worth a thousand words.

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The cameras are really a kind of ideal,

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The sand's really not even needed.

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Because we're gonna get a picture.

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Ideally, is it our cat?

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You know the cat Rex we're looking for?

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Or is it gonna be Ricky the raccoon?

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We're gonna have a picture either way.

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Dixie: As far as placing the camera,

should you be placing it out of the

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door You think that they went out of?

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Carmen: It depends on where you're at.

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If you're in New York City or

something like that, it's gonna be

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strategically, significantly harder.

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To find a good place to put that camera.

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But if you're, in Virginia, for

instance, about where I am, then if

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your dog ran out the back door of the

front door and into the woods, I'd

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place it more facing the wood line.

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Dixie: Now, what about the average

time a it takes to find a lost pet?

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Is there an average time?

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Carmen: It

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depends on the pet and the terrain and

the circumstances, oddly enough, cats

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can take a little longer than dogs do.

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Just again, because you're not

getting the sightings as quickly as

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you would be for the tabby cat as

you would be for the German Shepherd.

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It depends on if, do they go missing

from someplace other than home

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or do they go missing from home?

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Are they missing in a state

park or are they missing from,

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the groomers type of thing.

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I would say on average for a dog,

anywhere from one to four weeks.

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And for a cat, for an indoor only

cat, I would say one to three weeks.

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As long as they're missing from

home and haven't been displaced.

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For instance, the cat I do

today at the Arboretum, they're

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what, 45 minutes from home.

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He's an indoor only cat who's

now been displaced totally out

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of his elements into the wild.

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And the thing with this cat is

that number one, there's gonna be

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nobody there to see them, right?

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Because it's the arboretum.

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So the odds of somebody seeing a cat

during the day when they're walking

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around or so to none, he's probably

gonna be most active at night.

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So we do have a couple cameras

placed, but we're also gonna be

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competing with anything that Stanley

is going to catch on his own.

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We're just hoping that my mackerel and

sardines is way more attractive than, any

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kind of birds or chipmunks or whatever

he may be finding to eat by himself.

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Dixie: For the lost cats, and let's

say indoor only cats i'm in agreement

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of course with the whole scent thing.

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So I always tell people if it's an

indoor only cat, chances are that

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cat is very close by just hiding

somewhere in a really safe hiding spot.

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And I always tell people to just

crack open their front door.

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And I find like a lot of the times

at when they do that, they'll either

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start seeing the cat or the cat even

sometimes runs back in the house.

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Carmen: And I do the same thing.

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And I've had it work a lot actually,

even after a week or two, sometimes the

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cat finds its way home and comes right

back into the window that it left from.

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Dixie: Yeah.

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And I found that out by accident actually.

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Like I always heard the thing about

putting something on your porch,

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say your shoes or dirty laundry

so that they could smell it.

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When my cat got out we just happened to

open the front door and when we opened

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the front door, like within like maybe

five minutes, he ran right back in.

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Carmen: Oh, that's perfect.

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Dixie: At that time, that's when I

realized, oh leaving the front door open.

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I think that's actually like a thing,

because cat behavior is they go out there,

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they find someplace to hide and they're

just hiding, looking around, waiting.

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I know people always say, go out there,

shake the treat jars and stuff like that.

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My experience with cats is

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you just have to let 'em alone and let

'em come to you opening the door, and

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a lot of the times they run back in.

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Carmen: I agree.

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And the thing with lost pets that

a lot of people don't understand

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for say, and again, 'cause it

goes against, human nature, right?

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Once you start searching actively for a

lost pet, like literally beating bushes

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and stuff like that, or if everybody

goes tromping through the woods and

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that kind of thing, you actually run the

risk of moving your pet and pushing your

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pet out of that immediate area, right?

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Because.

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Again, they're somewhere that,

where they feel safe and whatnot.

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As soon as you invade that space,

they are not taking the time to

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realize, oh wait, that's mom.

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They're just saying Uhoh.

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Something's here.

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Predator.

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Predator, run.

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And so they, they move.

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And then once they associate that

area with fear, they're actually

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less likely to return to that

area than they would have before.

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Dixie: That makes a lot of sense.

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It really does.

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Carmen: And so a lot of times on the

trapping side of things, when you'll

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see trappers like, please don't chase,

please don't chase, please don't chase.

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And unfortunately, everybody

thinks that they can go get the

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dog or the cat or whatnot, and

they wanna play the hero card.

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And literally it's like pulling teeth,

trying to get people to stay away

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and don't chase, just let the dog be.

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But again, once you chase that dog.

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All the trapping efforts

start from scratch again.

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'cause now they've shifted areas, right?

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So now we have to find the new area

and we have to, sometimes recondition

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for the trapping portion of it.

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And it just makes it so

much more challenging.

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Dixie: You did mention that it is harder

to do cats because people will see a

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cat outside and when they see the cat

outside, they automatically assume it's

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an outside cat or an inside outside cat.

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So it's not lost.

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And I see that a lot as well.

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So are there any tips you can give

people that if they see a cat,

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which might indicate that cat is

actually a lost cat, that may be an

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indoor only cat or a displaced cat?

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Carmen: Hopefully

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the goal would be for them to

see, oh look, lost cat flyer.

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Oh, wait a minute, here's

a cat and lost cat flyer.

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So it really drives that point home.

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I would say that, if they see a cat take

a picture of the cat because if they

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don't know that cat the flyers might go

up tomorrow or the following day, but

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then they can say, oh, wait a minute.

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I saw this cat here on,

Thursday type of thing.

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Or if they are, rescue people and

what have you, they can obviously

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go on Facebook and search kind

of their local lost pet pages.

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I realize a lot of people these days are

somewhat self-absorbed, so that's asking

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a lot, which is why I say, maybe just

take a picture and see if the flyers

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pop up in a day or two, type of thing.

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Dixie: Okay, great advice.

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I,

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Carmen: the flyers are just

a critical thing, right?

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Because without the flyers even,

even in like the Northern Virginia

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area for instance, you'll see an

off leash dog who's just, people

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let them roam type of thing.

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So it could really be the neighbor's dog,

but could it be a lost dog also maybe, and

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you don't see the flyers or what have you.

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And so it's, the flyers make

everybody in that community aware.

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And the flyers are likely the

most tedious process of all.

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And it's what I get the most pushback

on, is getting the flyers up to

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the areas they need to be up at.

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Having the, an effective flyer is also

super important sometimes, and some of,

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these, social media platforms or whatever,

will, just design a flyer for you.

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Okay, great.

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I don't need to know what Fluffy eats

every night for dinner and what time he

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eats and his favorite color and does he

do this and that, and blah, blah, blah.

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All I need is Lost dog or lost cat.

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Big picture.

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Do not chase big phone number.

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That's it.

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I don't even want the name on there.

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If somebody's walking around and they're

like out for their afternoon jog, right?

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And you see all these flyers saying,

lost dog, fluffy, what's your

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gut instinct telling you to do?

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Oh wait, that's a dog fluffy.

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And you start calling for the

dog, and that then scares the dog

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and pushes the dog further away.

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But if they don't know the name, what

action item do they have left to do?

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Okay, great.

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They'll take a picture and that

way they can text it to the number.

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Dixie: That's some good advice.

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'cause I do see flyers too, that you

actually have to stop and read 'em,

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or it's it'll be so much wording

in a very tiny little photo of an

367

:

animal, and it's make that bigger.

368

:

Carmen: And at that point,

369

:

again, who's actually gonna stop to

necessarily, other than then pet people or

370

:

rescue people, your average person who's

coming home from work or just picking kids

371

:

up from school or whatever, they're not

stopping to take a picture of that flyer.

372

:

They don't even know is it, are they

advertising a yard sale where they're

373

:

gonna have, stuffed pets for sale?

374

:

Who knows?

375

:

So if it's not super clear.

376

:

By the time I get there, I redid the

flyer for them and then I'm so not

377

:

popular when I'm like, Hey, let's go

replace all of these type of thing.

378

:

I encourage people to get flyers

up to the entrance and exits of

379

:

churches because that's a different

demographic of people, right?

380

:

They're not on Facebook.

381

:

They're not on social media,

and if they are out driving,

382

:

they might not be stopping and

seeing what's on the stop sign.

383

:

They're just trying to get from

point A to B, but they go to church.

384

:

Dixie: Great advice.

385

:

When should people call in a

professional pet tracker like you?

386

:

Carmen: It probably depends, for instance,

when people call me, if they've had a lot

387

:

of the sightings and they don't know what

to do or where to turn or how to get,

388

:

fluffy home, I'm relatively well networked

to whereas I can get them in touch with

389

:

a qualified trapper for their area.

390

:

I just got back from Maine.

391

:

I was in New Hampshire, Vermont, and

then New York on my way home to Virginia.

392

:

So I was gone like, what?

393

:

Nine days?

394

:

I'm not.

395

:

In one location for long enough to

actually assist with the trapping.

396

:

I can, obviously, virtually consult

and whatnot like the cats for instance.

397

:

I can walk people how to

trap cats all day long.

398

:

But for the dogs, again, that's like

a five, $600 very large trap that you

399

:

need to acquire and get out, and it just

helps to have somebody who's physically

400

:

there, boots on the ground because.

401

:

A dog can say, Nope, I don't

wanna do the kennel trap.

402

:

I, and you have to switch

it to a Missy trap.

403

:

I had one dog out in King George,

Virginia for 500 and some odd days.

404

:

We tracked once we had that dog

on camera almost every other night

405

:

until we started switching up traps.

406

:

'cause she wouldn't go into box trap.

407

:

We tried a Missy Trap.

408

:

We would build up panel by panel.

409

:

She had nothing to do with that.

410

:

So we actually had to have

my friend Kevin drive up from

411

:

North Carolina with a drop net.

412

:

Meaning we had to clear utilities and

get the waterline cleared and all of

413

:

that good stuff and put that up and

then condition her to go under that.

414

:

And it took a while.

415

:

So again, it's, having a qualified

trapper in your area is a big plus,

416

:

or sometimes somebody who at least,

you know, within an hour who can

417

:

drive and help you with equipment.

418

:

Even if I could, I drive

a Toyota Highlander.

419

:

I had a four runner before I can

either bring tracking dogs or a trap.

420

:

And I can pretty much guarantee the

majority of the time I'm called in

421

:

and actually physically go somewhere.

422

:

They're gonna want the

tracking dogs and not the trap.

423

:

Dixie: The net that you were talking

about, does that just go up and then

424

:

just fall directly on top of the dog?

425

:

Is that how that works?

426

:

Carmen: Yeah, it's like almost

a soccer field size net.

427

:

Like a soccer, like a goal?

428

:

Type of net.

429

:

And it goes on top of these poles

and it's released by magnets.

430

:

And it's, you have a live camera

from different angles on the dog.

431

:

'cause you gotta be there quick.

432

:

Because you don't want

the dog to hurt himself.

433

:

But yes, that's essentially what it is.

434

:

Now, some dogs won't enter, won't walk

through thresholds no matter how big.

435

:

It's just a thing.

436

:

So when the Missy Trap won't

work, you're left huh, okay.

437

:

Now what?

438

:

And so then we typically go to a drop net.

439

:

Dixie: That's interesting.

440

:

So can you tell us a little

bit about your tracking dogs?

441

:

Carmen: Sure.

442

:

So I'm gonna say I have 3.5.

443

:

, The dog I started with magic.

444

:

She's a yellow lab and she's

living her best life of

445

:

retirement with my mom right now.

446

:

She's probably 12 ish, I would say.

447

:

And I'll still take around to

like local cat stuff or just, like

448

:

a hide and seek type of thing.

449

:

She still loves the game, but

she has problems getting in and

450

:

outta the back of the truck.

451

:

It's harder on her hips and whatnot.

452

:

Then I have a German Shepherd

named Rose who is six.

453

:

I have a, and this is what

kind of gets people every time.

454

:

I have a rat terrier named Trix,

who is five, and she's phenomenal.

455

:

She's my heart surface girl.

456

:

She's, so she's 15 pounds.

457

:

So she's little.

458

:

She's good for the cats 'cause

she can get into places that,

459

:

my shepherd and my labs cannot.

460

:

And then my newest addition

is Finley and he will be two

461

:

in July and he's a black lab.

462

:

Dixie: How does that process work

with using the tracking dogs?

463

:

Can you tell us how they go

out and actually find the pets?

464

:

Carmen: So it's important to

remember that, again, I'm not

465

:

necessarily walking up on your dog.

466

:

And while it has happened, I'd

say I've had maybe, I don't

467

:

know, 12 to 15 since I started.

468

:

We call them walkup finds.

469

:

And at 12 to 15 I've probably had

seven to eight like captures from

470

:

being out on the track, if you will.

471

:

We take a scent item, whether that be a

bed, a blanket, harness a sweater, I've

472

:

used the dog's, toothbrush, whatever.

473

:

And then we literally,

track your lost pet.

474

:

So with that said, we're methodically

chasing essentially, right?

475

:

So once my dogs start to give

me a proximity alert, depending

476

:

on where we're at and what's

going on, I generally pull back.

477

:

We were in Maine, where were we?

478

:

It was Corinth, Maine, about a week ago.

479

:

And it was actually with Finley

and I was partnering with a thermal

480

:

drone operator up there, which has

a lot of benefits to it as well.

481

:

Because we were tracking and I was just

telling the owner, Christie, I'm like,

482

:

you'll notice we're moving faster.

483

:

I was like, the sun's getting

stronger and stronger.

484

:

And then, Rob came over the

radio and was like, Hey, I've got

485

:

Mavis 300 feet in front of you.

486

:

So again, that's amazing

information to have, right?

487

:

So that way we were able to

know what we were walking

488

:

into before we walked into it.

489

:

So I had, I put Finley back up in the car.

490

:

We coached Christie on calming signals.

491

:

I gave her some rotisserie chicken

in a bag, a slip lead, and sent her,

492

:

literally directed her while having

her on FaceTime and on the radio

493

:

with the drone as to where Mavis was.

494

:

She sat there probably, I

don't know, she probably 45

495

:

minutes to an hour in the rain.

496

:

Trying to use calming

signals and what have you.

497

:

And Mavis moved, bolted right past her.

498

:

Didn't even take a second to

give it a chance to smell.

499

:

Wait a minute, that's mom.

500

:

So as disheartening as that is to have her

run right past you, we, I mean there was

501

:

a lot of important things that day, right?

502

:

Like number one, Mavis mom got

eyes on Mavis for the first time.

503

:

So there's a great big relief there.

504

:

'cause essentially that's proof of life.

505

:

And I can tell you all day long

we're getting sightings or whatever.

506

:

But until you actually

put eyes on your dog.

507

:

It's harder to, it's harder

for that relief to sit in.

508

:

Secondly, now we know where we're

trapping and putting cameras up at.

509

:

And so after that we called it

for the tracking because we're

510

:

methodically chasing, right?

511

:

And I don't wanna continue to

chase and scare her from the area.

512

:

So let's go to the trapping.

513

:

Let's get the cameras out in the

trap and see where we go with that.

514

:

And we have, maybe this might be a

little bit of a more challenging.

515

:

Trap, if you will.

516

:

She seems to have no desire to go

in this box trap, no matter what

517

:

food I put in it, whether it's ham,

beef, liver, tripe, barbecue, bacon,

518

:

she wants nothing to do with it.

519

:

So we're looking at probably having

to get a Missy trap up there for her.

520

:

So is she still out on the run then?

521

:

We get her on camera every night.

522

:

She's still in the same location.

523

:

She just has no desire

to go in this box trap.

524

:

And it's one of the six

foot extra large ones.

525

:

And so it's not a size thing.

526

:

I think it's just the being

contained thing, right?

527

:

So now we're gonna start

conditioning for a Missy.

528

:

I'm gonna a trap and start

putting the kennel panels up and

529

:

making sure, we'll probably do

it a little slower than typical.

530

:

We'll probably start

with the three panels.

531

:

And does she come back and eat still?

532

:

Okay.

533

:

Yes.

534

:

Great.

535

:

Let's do the next three.

536

:

Okay.

537

:

She's still there.

538

:

Awesome.

539

:

Let's finish it up and go from there.

540

:

Dixie: I think there two

is a misconception with the

541

:

tracking dogs, because I see.

542

:

People sometimes commenting, oh,

I'm gonna get a tracking dog.

543

:

And I think that they think that,

oh, they're gonna get a tracking dog.

544

:

Carmen: I'm gonna walk

545

:

up and hand you your pet.

546

:

Dixie: That's what I was gonna say.

547

:

There is a process to it.

548

:

So you get the tracking dog

549

:

Carmen: oh yes.

550

:

Dixie: You get the tracking dog.

551

:

You don't wanna chase the dog.

552

:

So then at that point you have to trap it.

553

:

Carmen: Correct.

554

:

Now the drones are a relatively

new thing with lost pets, and it's

555

:

an amazing, it's amazing, right?

556

:

People have to understand that.

557

:

Let's say you have a new

dog, new rescue dog, right?

558

:

And you've had the dog two hours

putting a drone up in the air.

559

:

While yes, you might get eyes

on the dog, which is amazing.

560

:

Even like the calming signals will

likely not work at that point.

561

:

'cause this dog does not know you.

562

:

This dog came from, Texas and

you're in, you're in Massachusetts,

563

:

right?

564

:

There's nothing familiar.

565

:

So even having, the drone say,

yes, here's the coordinates.

566

:

I'm gonna walk you in,

and so forth and so on.

567

:

Could it work?

568

:

Okay, sure.

569

:

Is it likely to work, eh.

570

:

Maybe, if you've got a little bit of

background on the dog, was it an owner

571

:

surrender or was it out on the streets

of Texas by himself for, two years?

572

:

The dog who's been on the street

for two years is gonna be much less

573

:

likely to trust anybody or anything.

574

:

I.

575

:

You're probably gonna wanna do

more trapping than like a common

576

:

signals hand capture approach.

577

:

And I don't think people realize that, if

a drone goes up, yes, it can be immediate

578

:

gratification, which is remarkable.

579

:

And that's what everybody wants.

580

:

If the drone goes up and sees nothing

you're still left with nothing,

581

:

You don't have a direction of travel.

582

:

You have, nothing to go off of per se.

583

:

And that doesn't necessarily mean your

dog's not in that area of the drone

584

:

flew, but could your dog be under,

something or hidden somehow in a way

585

:

that, that the thermal is not picking up?

586

:

Possibly.

587

:

But again, you're not gonna know

that the thermal drones offer that

588

:

immediate gratification result, whereas

a tracking dog odds are you're gonna

589

:

have to do a little bit of work.

590

:

It's gonna be the flyers and the

feeding stations, and it's gonna

591

:

be, there's, there needs to be

some effort put forth by the owner,

592

:

It's not necessarily this quick

turnaround type, one done, here's Carmen

593

:

great and I'm showing up with my leash

or my carrier and my whatever, and

594

:

my harness, and let's go get my dog.

595

:

And I've shown up and had people

think that no matter how many times

596

:

you tell them or no many, how many

times you reiterated it in any kind

597

:

of contract or anything, they still

have that stuck in their mind.

598

:

I still try to break it down yes, could

that happen And that would be amazing.

599

:

Is it likely not really.

600

:

Again, your dog's gonna sense me and

my dog coming into whatever little

601

:

bubble of safety they've created for

themselves way before we get eyes on 'em.

602

:

Dixie: With a thermal drone , do you

have to worry about picking up other

603

:

animals that might not be yours?

604

:

Carmen: Of course, yes.

605

:

But ideally, at least the drone

operators I've worked with can

606

:

tell me, oh, is that a coyote?

607

:

Yes.

608

:

Is it a rabbit?

609

:

Yes, it does.

610

:

A squirrel also.

611

:

Yes.

612

:

We managed to get several porcupines

in a tree while we were in Maine.

613

:

So they can tell us if it's,

our target animal or not.

614

:

And with it.

615

:

That also helps me and my dogs because

I don't really wanna walk into the

616

:

coyote den, if there's a coyote 300

feet to my right, I'd like to know

617

:

that before I walk a lot type of thing.

618

:

Dixie: So something else that I see

a lot of is people wanting to use the

619

:

thermal drones in like urban areas.

620

:

Do people use them or is that gonna

be like almost pointless because

621

:

you're gonna pick up so many

other dogs or so many other cats.

622

:

Carmen: A thermal drone for a cat for

starters is likely not the best bet

623

:

anyways because your cat's probably hiding

underneath a porch or a shed or something

624

:

along those lines to whereas a thermals

likely not going to pick it up anyways.

625

:

Could it maybe, but that's a hail Mary.

626

:

As far as the open areas go.

627

:

A lot of the more populated areas.

628

:

For instance, a lot of the areas right

around DC or Chicago and a hundred

629

:

percent New York City are no fly zones.

630

:

So you're not gonna be able to get

a thermal drone up there anyways.

631

:

Any kinda military base and what

have you, it's gonna be no fly zones

632

:

and you can apply for the exemption

to get a drone up, but that's gonna

633

:

also take you three to four days.

634

:

And there's no guarantee.

635

:

And so again, it's, the immediate

gratification sounds amazing.

636

:

When you hear it, and I also would

like to be like, sure, whatever.

637

:

Not a problem.

638

:

Come on.

639

:

1:00 AM whatever time you

need to be here, let's do it.

640

:

But people just need to take a

second and realize, okay, so if

641

:

I don't see my dog now, what?

642

:

Whereas at least if you're pairing

the tracking dog in the drone,

643

:

the tracking dog's still gonna

give you that direction of travel.

644

:

You're still gonna have an action

plan on which way the dog went

645

:

and where the dog will likely go

next based on lost pet behavior.

646

:

Ideally, and at least the way I work

things, is that once I get an area,

647

:

I actually go outside of that area

and create a perimeter of what I call

648

:

negatives or locations with no scent.

649

:

Just doubling down on the fact I

didn't miss a turn, and making sure

650

:

that the area I have is accurate.

651

:

Because again, at the end of the

day, your dog can miss a turn.

652

:

, But all of my negatives I tell people

are also probable positives, meaning

653

:

likely they passive travel, so your

animal's gonna continue to move.

654

:

Just 'cause he's not here right now does

not mean he won't be here in two days.

655

:

And so it helps them understand

the process of where your dog's

656

:

gonna go next type of thing.

657

:

Dixie: For people who aren't

using the tracking dogs and

658

:

aren't using the thermal drones

659

:

Carmen: FLYER FLYER FLYER

660

:

Dixie: But as far

661

:

as distance because I will

see something where, people

662

:

are like, oh, my dog was lost.

663

:

In this general area, but dogs can just

keep running to get into another area.

664

:

The cats can hitch a ride or cats

can get picked up and get dumped.

665

:

As far as travel goes, I guess

for a dog, for an animal that's

666

:

just gonna be running, how far

can a dog travel in one day?

667

:

Carmen: So typically a dog will

go three to five miles a day.

668

:

Ideally that's a circle or a triangle.

669

:

There's some kind of pattern and or

shape to where they're going with

670

:

that said, if they get on power

lines, train tracks, creek beds, that

671

:

kind of thing, that can push them

significantly further out, like almost

672

:

in a straight line, significantly faster.

673

:

I generally tell people if they have

the flyers up for that three to five

674

:

mile radius, let's, you know it's been

48 hours with no sightings or anything,

675

:

let's go another three miles out.

676

:

Then if you wait another, 48 hours still

nothing, let's go another three miles

677

:

out because any of those things, it's

like a little doggy highway, right?

678

:

They can hop on those power lines

and no one's gonna see them and they

679

:

can go straight for quite some time.

680

:

Maybe popping off here and there, or

neighborhoods for like trash night

681

:

or something exciting like that.

682

:

But I had, I've had dogs

go 44 miles in 13 days.

683

:

On power lines.

684

:

I had now, given this wasn't

power lines, but I did have an

685

:

Alaskan sled dog that had just

retired, go 27 miles in four days.

686

:

But again, that's kinda what

that dog was bred to do, right?

687

:

There was no denying that

it was gonna be a runner.

688

:

It just, again, knowing your dog's

personality and the breed especially

689

:

also helps, obviously the Alaskan sled

dogs are bred to, to run in significant

690

:

distances significantly quickly.

691

:

I find your huskies and your

shepherds can also be runners.

692

:

The whippets and greyhounds also runners.

693

:

I find that boxers tend to stay

closer and or circle back at some

694

:

point in time, more so than some

of the other breeds, oddly enough.

695

:

The smaller dogs, people like to discount

them thinking they're not gonna go

696

:

super far, but they're the spunky ones

that have that, have that energy and

697

:

they'll up and go in a heartbeat too.

698

:

Dixie: Yeah, and I know people also

tend to lose hope like after a week

699

:

or so and they tend to give up.

700

:

I always tell people one of the things

that you shouldn't do is give up hope.

701

:

I know by me there was a situation

where somebody's cat got out

702

:

their carrier broke as they were

bringing them into a vet clinic.

703

:

And it happened to be the vet clinic was

caddy corner to the back of my business.

704

:

So I put a trap out just hoping

that I might catch the cat.

705

:

I caught the cat, it took me three

months, but I did catch the cat.

706

:

Carmen: And that's not abnormal.

707

:

I am actually working on a case

where that exact same thing happened.

708

:

And the Pennsylvania, New York

border, and it's been, I think

709

:

we're going on six weeks now.

710

:

We had one sighting, which was accurate.

711

:

We are not, for some reason, people

just don't take the pictures that we

712

:

ask them to take, but that's okay.

713

:

I was up there, I think.

714

:

The week three to track and we got a good

track and I stopped back through there on

715

:

my way home from Maine and tracked again.

716

:

And the cat hasn't gone further.

717

:

The cat just went across the street and

essentially is doing the same distance

718

:

just on the other side of the road.

719

:

Now we have new cameras in

place and that kind of thing.

720

:

But again, we hit, the one side we have

had was back at the vet point of loss.

721

:

But people get frustrated, like you

said, and tend to give up too soon

722

:

because it's been a week, it's been

two weeks and we've got nothing.

723

:

And especially with cats, I would

not discount that for anything.

724

:

I would leave those cameras out there for

21 to 28 days 'cause they do circle back.

725

:

It can just take them a little longer.

726

:

Dixie: And like you said, a camera's

gonna be the only way that you're

727

:

gonna get the definitive proof too.

728

:

Another subject I'd like to touch on

a little bit that I've seen lately is

729

:

scams where people will tell people

730

:

Carmen: yes,

731

:

Dixie: that they've found their

pet and they'll say, Hey, text me.

732

:

And it can involve all kinds of different

things actually, but can you explain some

733

:

of the scams you might be familiar with?

734

:

Carmen: Sure.

735

:

It's a whole bunch of them because

people just get super creative.

736

:

I think it started off

with text me a Google Code.

737

:

That was like three years ago,

four years I guess, when the

738

:

scams really started kicking in.

739

:

I haven't seen so many of those recently.

740

:

Now it's more first of all you have

people impersonating legitimate

741

:

organizations, whether it be pet trackers

or drone operators or what have you.

742

:

It's sad.

743

:

Everyone tags these fake pages

on Facebook and you get these

744

:

desperate pet owners who don't.

745

:

Do the homework , they're saying

they're a hundred percent guarantee

746

:

and blah, blah, blah, blah.

747

:

And first of all, that should

be the first big red flag.

748

:

If I say I'm a hundred percent

guaranteeing that I'm gonna find your

749

:

pet and hand 'em to you at the end

of the day, there, there's no way.

750

:

We're dealing with a living thing

that has its own personality, right?

751

:

That's like me trying to say,

a hundred percent I'm gonna be

752

:

able to do this with this person.

753

:

No questions asked, whatever.

754

:

There's just no way to predict that.

755

:

I've had people.

756

:

recently get spoof called, so

when somebody calls their phone,

757

:

because again, you've got flyers

up, you're on social media.

758

:

People already know the area your pet's

lost in and they have your phone number so

759

:

they can just Google, let's say, I don't

know, like Palm Beach, Florida, right?

760

:

What's the emergency vet

closest to Palm Beach, Florida?

761

:

They'll call you and your

caller ID is going to show up

762

:

with, Palm Beach Emergency Vet.

763

:

So really you have no reason to think

it's not Palm Beach Emergency Vet, right?

764

:

'cause that's what's coming

up on your caller id.

765

:

And they're gonna call you at like

midnight 1:00 AM or whenever and say,

766

:

Hey, you know your dog was hit by a car.

767

:

I need your credit card number for $3,000.

768

:

We're going into surgery right

now, or your dog's gonna die.

769

:

So number one, they're taking advantage

of you at when you're most vulnerable.

770

:

What's missing?

771

:

Two, they're getting you when

your guards down likely late at

772

:

night or early in the morning.

773

:

So you maybe you were

sleeping, that kind of thing.

774

:

So you're not necessarily

thinking straight 3.

775

:

They're calling from an organization

or business or vet or whatever

776

:

that you are familiar with.

777

:

That is close to you,

and it's very probable.

778

:

Your dog could have been hit by a

car and taken that you don't know.

779

:

And so , they're playing on all

those different emotions and they're

780

:

taking all those things and factored

into the scam, and people will give

781

:

them $5,000 that way, and they get

to the vet and, oh, wait a minute.

782

:

Nope, you don't have fluffy here huh.

783

:

I find that no vet, no animal control,

nobody like that is necessarily gonna ask

784

:

you for money like that over the phone.

785

:

They're gonna say, Hey,

fluffy was hit by a car.

786

:

We need you here.

787

:

Like right now.

788

:

No.

789

:

And if you are unsure, the best

thing you can do is hang up.

790

:

Google the organization and call

them back because if they were

791

:

spoof calling you, you're actually

gonna get the correct organization

792

:

when you call that number back.

793

:

People actually somewhat recently,

and it was a group in Florida

794

:

that , got scammed on there and they

had literally cloned my website.

795

:

So when you clicked on it had all the

same colors, all the same pictures, except

796

:

they've added on like a drone service.

797

:

And they added on a bunch of like

cash app this or Venmo this and all

798

:

these different like payment, methods.

799

:

They changed the phone number, but they

weren't super duper thorough with it.

800

:

If you click on the link to

the National Geographic thing,

801

:

you still get the real me.

802

:

And at the bottom of some of the pages,

they didn't take out the correct number.

803

:

So ideally someone catches

that, but again, it looks

804

:

just like my normal website.

805

:

Like they did a remarkably good job

and they just, copy and paste it.

806

:

some different pictures in there.

807

:

I've had people say that they work for

professional pet checkers on Facebook

808

:

and try to scan people that way.

809

:

I had somebody call me from

Norman, Oklahoma asking me

810

:

why Dave hadn't arrived yet.

811

:

And I'm like okay,

who's Dave for starters?

812

:

And apparently someone had

said they were calling for my

813

:

organization, their name was Dave.

814

:

They were coming out until they

found their dog to Oklahoma.

815

:

And I think it was a total of $300.

816

:

And I was gonna show up

with my 31 tracking dogs.

817

:

Dixie: Oh wow.

818

:

Carmen: Several things there.

819

:

Number one, I'm based outta Virginia

and so if I'm coming to Norman,

820

:

Oklahoma for $300, then wow.

821

:

That's.

822

:

Remarkably kind of me and

two, what am I tracking?

823

:

'cause I apparently, I have

a tractor trailer of dogs.

824

:

So if I'm not putting up dog

poop or trainee or, like feeding,

825

:

like that's a lot of dogs.

826

:

It's unfortunate that they've

gotten so good at this, but

827

:

just you gotta do your homework.

828

:

Whether that be asking for a variety

of different references or, FaceTiming

829

:

with the person if you Google me, you're

gonna come up with Carmen Brothers

830

:

and you're gonna see a picture of me.

831

:

You're gonna be able to see, again, the

National Geographic Show is a big one.

832

:

I can send you links to that

and I promised you I don't

833

:

have a scammer in nat geo.

834

:

So that way you can again verify you're

talking to the real person, right?

835

:

It's just people are so quick to click,

pay whatever these days . Just, again,

836

:

I can just say, do your homework and

if you think it's a scam or you think

837

:

it's too good to be true, it likely is.

838

:

Dixie: They're very creative.

839

:

Carmen: Just my website alone I don't even

know how to report that or shut that down.

840

:

Because anybody can buy a domain name

and put anything they want on it.

841

:

What do I do with that at that point?

842

:

So at this point, I just literally

switched up my entire website.

843

:

So at least it looks different.

844

:

Again, there's only so much

prevention and, trying to.

845

:

Make things separate yourself

per se, that you can do.

846

:

Dixie: Yeah.

847

:

And I know like on the pages that

I admin for, we will see constantly

848

:

comments, oh, contact such and such pet

trackers, we're gonna get your pet home.

849

:

Carmen: Yeah.

850

:

All the things and these

different ones, and it's just.

851

:

It's disgusting.

852

:

But it makes it harder for

people to get legitimate help.

853

:

Dixie: It does, right?

854

:

Absolutely.

855

:

' Carmen: cause I'll get sent something

I saw this, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

856

:

And so I'll, I've got like a jpeg with,

lost Cat tips, lost dog tips, and then, my

857

:

number at the bottom of it, or I send 'em

directly to my Facebook page or whatever.

858

:

But.

859

:

If you're seeing scam, scammer legitimate,

scammer, scammer, it's, who knows, right?

860

:

It's almost impossible to know who

you can trust and who you can't.

861

:

Dixie: Yeah it's scary because, it is

when people are the most vulnerable,

862

:

and they just wanna get their pets home

863

:

Carmen: right?

864

:

Dixie: What are some preventative measures

pet owners can take to reduce the risk of

865

:

their pet getting lost in the first place?

866

:

Carmen: I can't emphasize the

microchipping enough, especially for cats.

867

:

The Tabby cats tend to look the same.

868

:

And if your cat's out for four to six

weeks, again the coat could be different

869

:

'cause their diet's been different.

870

:

It's just, a microchip is something that a

lot of people like, oh, I've got an indoor

871

:

cat, he's never gonna go out anywhere.

872

:

I don't need to do that.

873

:

Yeah maybe, yeah, please do.

874

:

Just in case.

875

:

'cause you never know and

just be smart about it, right?

876

:

If your dog doesn't have great recall,

or even if your dog does have great

877

:

recall, a leash is a very cheap buy.

878

:

You can get 'em on Amazon super cheap, use

them, put identification on the collars

879

:

just, hey, it's out there all the time.

880

:

If you don't have a fence,

keep your dog on a line.

881

:

If you know your dog is gonna chase

the deer, then maybe don't have

882

:

an invisible fence, but have a

rear fence and that kind of thing.

883

:

Just prevent, if it's a holiday you're

planning on having people over, so maybe,

884

:

put your dogs in the bedroom or something.

885

:

That way they're not stressed and

there's no risk of people leaving

886

:

doors open and that kind of stuff.

887

:

I would say for the pet

sitters in particular.

888

:

There's a couple different platforms

out there, some better than the others.

889

:

However, it's great to have a personal

relationship with your pet sitter, right?

890

:

Don't just let you know Joe Schmo from

that you booked online and I've never met

891

:

come walk Fluffy because we don't know.

892

:

Fluffy doesn't know that person.

893

:

And you don't want the pet sitter who's

gonna go, chase your pet for five blocks

894

:

if the leaf does drop type of thing.

895

:

And if nothing else, attempt to

have a good scent item for all

896

:

the pets in your house to make

people like my lives much easier.

897

:

If you have nine cats and three

of 'em are indoor outdoor, and the

898

:

others are indoor only, and they

all share the same everything.

899

:

If I come out there and one's gone

missing, or two gone missing, one came

900

:

back, and so forth and so on, there is

no way for me to say, okay, I'm a hundred

901

:

percent sure I'm tracking the correct

cat if the scent items contaminated.

902

:

Dixie: Before we end this call, is there

anything else that you would like to add?

903

:

Carmen: Just it can happen to anybody,

and again, a lot of it has to do

904

:

with not the fact that it happened.

905

:

I find , people think they're getting

judged for losing their dog or losing

906

:

their cat, and no one's judging.

907

:

It's more or less what you do

to get your cat or dog home.

908

:

Dixie: Absolutely.

909

:

And it can happen to anyone.

910

:

I know there are some people that

are careless and they do definitely

911

:

have those situations, but it could

be, you think your door is shut and

912

:

your door accidentally pops open,

913

:

Carmen: right?

914

:

Or the, the landscaper didn't

lock the gate or whatever.

915

:

It's my biggest pet peeve is

seeing on like the Facebook pages.

916

:

My escape artist is at it again.

917

:

Okay, there's that.

918

:

Get a GPS collar, right?

919

:

The GPS collar is likely way cheaper

than I am or a thermal drone is.

920

:

Take that precaution if you know

the Fluffy likes to run, do what

921

:

you can do, not make him run or

keep track of where he is at.

922

:

Dixie: You said you had some

resources for some tips.

923

:

Where can people find those?

924

:

Carmen: So you can go to my website,

which is professional pet trackers.com.

925

:

And there are resources,

the page resources.

926

:

Dixie: Great.

927

:

Thank you so much for taking

the time to speak with me today.

928

:

Carmen: Of course.

929

:

Thank you.

930

:

Dixie: All right.

931

:

Bye

932

:

And that's all the time we

have for today's episode.

933

:

If you are in animal rescue, or if

you know someone that has a story that

934

:

should be told, please contact us.

935

:

We would love to have

you or them on the show

936

:

. Thanks for listening, and please

join us next week as we continue to

937

:

explore the world of animal rescue.

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About the Podcast

Animal Posse
A look inside the world of animal rescue
Dive deep into the world of animal rescue with heartwarming stories, expert interviews, and behind-the-scenes insights. From heartwarming adoptions to daring rescues, we'll explore the incredible bond between humans and animals.
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